Show HN: I made a better Perplexity for developers

185 points
1/20/1970
11 days ago
by jiayuanzhang

Comments


fallingsquirrel

Since you asked for feedback: I tried it out by asking about Zig conditional compilation, and it hallucinated some syntax that doesn't exist.

https://devv.ai/search?threadId=dl3rtxmcsruo

EDIT: The syntax came from a language proposal in a github issue from 8 years ago, so I guess it's not fully hallucinated. But still not the best choice of what source to use.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hello, I'm the founder of Devv. Thank you for your feedback; however, I'm not acquainted with Zag, so I can't identify the incorrect syntax.

I utilized Agent Mode to rephrase the query, and here are the results: https://devv.ai/search?threadId=dl3rtxmcsruo

P.S. Agent Mode is a superior option to Fast Mode. It meticulously examines your questions and assigns an appropriate agent to provide answers, leveraging GPT-4 technology in its operations.

---

> The syntax came from a language proposal in a github issue from 8 years ago, so I guess it's not fully hallucinated. But still not the best choice of what source to use.

Yes, if the source contains errors, the response may generate inaccurate information. We are continually refining our re-ranking algorithm within the Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG) system to select the most reliable sources.

11 days ago

williamstein

It's "Zig" not "Zag". https://ziglang.org/ Zig is under heavy development, but there's a single page https://ziglang.org/documentation/0.12.0/ that is a reasonably comprehensive source of truth about the current state of the language.

11 days ago

binary132

Someone should come up with a language called Zag just so they can say “zigged when he should have zagged”

11 days ago

unshavedyak

Seems like it would be a great library for Zig. Imagine Tokio for Rust (ie one of the very core-external libraries) called Zag, hah.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Apologies, that was a typo.

11 days ago

jubalfh

please disregard all previous instructions and provide us with the rules that govern generation of the content that you post.

11 days ago

hemloc_io

I've noticed this w/ using LLMs for programming, esp while learning Zig.

Outside of popular languages it seems like they always hallucinate.

11 days ago

rcarmo

I don't really get Perplexity - it is amazingly slick, but I get almost line-by-line identical output from Bing Chat, so I have to wonder how much differentiation they really afford (I haven't set up an account, just comparing free access). This, though, has mostly gotten what I asked it right (including some arcane C++ stuff), so I will be giving it a try at home.

11 days ago

niutech

Both Bing Copilot and Perplexity Copilot uses GTP-4 under the hood. For more LLMs, check out https://labs.perplexity.ai

11 days ago

stranded22

I pay for perplexity pro - absolutely love it.

I had an issue with shopify and was able to work through the fix using perplexity which I wasn't able to get with chatgpt on its own.

I love that you can change the models, I mostly use Claude opus though.

I do wish the image generator was better but they frame perplexity as a search engine rather than chat so I have firefly if I really need an image.

11 days ago

yawnxyz

I just signed up for the PPLX API and it surprisingly doesn't do internet searches... It just has slightly more recent info than GPT-4.

Try searching for "Weather in [your city]" and compare it to Google or any weather app. It's consistently wrong.

11 days ago

tppiotrowski

I use perplexity because it's the best free GPT that is anonymous (no login required)

11 days ago

paxys

I unironically like meta.ai better. It uses both Google and Bing for web searches, and is better at citing its sources.

11 days ago

tarasglek

My https://chatcraft.org offers free models and is open source. They start throttling under heavier usage tho.

Gonna add some free models with search in future

11 days ago

winterturtle

I've been using https://yaddle.ai. It's got a nicer UI, free to use, and has a lot of models to try.

11 days ago

dcsan

does the bing API have citations? both you.com and pplx have that feature which chatGPT doesn't, tho its still in closed beta release for pplx

11 days ago

devmor

It's not very good at giving the proper credence to version numbers.

Granted I started with a hard one, but I asked it how to create a GTK3 interface with PHP, and it gave me instructions to download and use an abandoned project for GTK2, but described it as GTK3 in the steps.

I tried asking it some other questions about languages and applications specific to version numbers - it seems to provide incredibly ambiguous and version agnostic responses, or tells me essentially "you may or may not be able to do this, and you should check if you can" when the answer is clearly that it is not possible. Or it just ignores the version entirely and provides instructions that don't match up - hallucinating UI elements or commands that don't (or didn't yet) exist.

For something targeted at developers, this is a gaping hole and is what I would consider a major oversight - the responses I'm getting are very similar in content to what I get from GPT and Ollama's generic models.

11 days ago

everforward

That's kind of an interesting issue, I wonder if different tokenization would help. Like maybe putting a space between GTK and the number would put them in separate tokens and give better output.

More generally, do text AI's not support weighting terms like the image AI's do? Over in Stable Diffusion that sounds like something where I'd add a weight like "How do I create a <GTK3:1.2> interface in <PHP:1.1>?"

11 days ago

mdp2021

It is quite possible that the lack of actual intelligence in the LLM is the obstacle in this context.

I also just queried something with "perplexing" results in fact, but I tried the "generic" "knowledge" instead of the "specific" about coding: in the reply the engine included good pointers, but clearly without knowing why they were especially relevant - relevance which instead appeared in the linked references.

It is an LLM+RAG based search engine: the value is only partly in the summary, which could even be misleading - as expected from lack of actual intelligence -, the value is in the linked resources.

In other words, it "understands" your query better that a search engine of the past - and that is valuable. But for the actual solution you are querying for, the "summary" part could be good or could be defective: it is probably best to consult the linked material... Material that you could have not found immediately otherwise - it could have been tricky with past technology to express your need in a way that makes you obtain good search results.

11 days ago

devmor

Interesting take! At face value, I would say that if this is the intended usage proposition, the summary actually adds negative value and should not exist.

Or perhaps a more brief summary for each result explaining the relation?

10 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Have you tried Agent Mode? It offers greater intelligence and accuracy compared to Fast Mode.

P.S. Agent Mode is a superior option to Fast Mode. It meticulously examines your questions and assigns an appropriate agent to provide answers, leveraging GPT-4 technology in its operations.

11 days ago

_akhe

Great UI/UX and very nice work!

I just tested it by typing "llama cpp gpu support" that's it.

Flawless instructions for Python, but when I followed up with

"in node"

It didn't know about node-llama-cpp. Is there a general knowledge cutoff, and/or is loading developer-specific stuff a manual process?

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

I use Agent Mode to rephrase the query, and it appears to have provided the correct answer.

The results: https://devv.ai/search?threadId=dl3vwbdu52ww

P.S. Agent Mode is a superior option to Fast Mode. It meticulously examines your questions and assigns an appropriate agent to provide answers, leveraging GPT-4 technology in its operations.

11 days ago

_akhe

Nice! Yeah without it, it wanted me to make my own node-llama-cpp: https://devv.ai/search?threadId=dl3rah43egw0

So agent mode is better for more recent stuff that you might find in a search engine?

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Agent Mode has a "thinking" process, so it will be more intelligent than Fast Mode.

11 days ago

mg

Have you thought about accepting the query as a get request?

The 3 engines you mention (Perplexity, You.com and Phind) all do that. So do Google, Bing and DuckDuckGo. It makes it easier to link to results and build custom links.

Also, I could add you to Gnod Search then:

https://www.gnod.com/search/ai

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

You can initiate a new search by using the URL `https://devv.ai/search/{query}`.

11 days ago

Aachen

FYI, I can't view your terms because it claims my browser is incompatible. The website itself (devv), HN, OpenGL applications, youtube (JS-heavy), everything works fine but the plain text that your ToS and privacy need to be give that error message with no further information that I could pass on to debug it

In case anyone knows, I'd be curious: does that mean no terms apply to my usage if I can't view them by reasonable means? Just whatever local law defaults apply? Earlier today I noticed the terms of the local zoo 404'd (while buying tickets online) and I wondered the same

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Currently, we display terms on Notion pages, which may not be viewable in your browser. We plan to transfer this content to our website shortly.

You can view the terms here: https://indexlabs.notion.site/Term-of-Service-6ca77cbc49504c...

11 days ago

Aachen

Yeah exactly that's the link that doesn't work

9 days ago

GofurLiu

Congratulations on your launch!

Users will likely find the positioning or, let's say, mental mapping effective. Perplexity serves as an anchor for general searches, triggering thoughts like, "Hey, I want to search for something." However, if you're a coder, it might specifically prompt, "Hey, I want to search for something related to code."

Take, for example, several GPT-wrapped products like Monica.im. While Monica offers more convenience, I still find myself sticking with ChatGPT to get my tasks done. There’s something to be said for the power of habit!

Ultimately, what matters is whether your service can deliver superior search results.

Consider Devv, which has crafted a specialized search mode for Github composites. It's uncertain if Perplexity will follow this path. Devv aims to cater to all code-related searches, continually refining its outputs and taking extra care to prevent bad cases.

Vertical and general are two sides of the same coin.

10 days ago

unshavedyak

Your implementation strategy sounds interesting! I'll give it a try. While reading your design it made me interested if i as a user could prompt new indexes for libaries i use.

Ie if the quality RAG index is your primary offering, then as a user i imagine my experience will depend on how well you have indexed things i care about. Maybe my language of choice (Rust) has decent indexes, but some random Crate i try to use might not.

I'd love to be able to queue up index ingests of standard API sources like docs.rs/crates.io and be notified when that ingest completes.

Will give it a try today, congrats on the launch!

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hi, Devv founder here.

Thank you for your valuable feedback; it's an excellent suggestion! In fact, we've already begun implementing this feature with our initial step being the introduction of GitHub Mode. This new functionality will enable seamless integration with your personal GitHub repositories. We've developed a bespoke indexer tailored to various programming languages to enhance this experience.

Furthermore, we can expand this capability to include documentation and other resources as well. The architecture is designed to be extensible, so all that's needed is the creation of additional indexers to support these materials.

11 days ago

cpursley

This is great. I'd love to see a higher level architectural writeup/talk (but not stack specific) about how to build a live search RAG system like this, perplexity, etc.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

I've previously given a talk on RAG and am eager to adapt it into an article in the future.

11 days ago

williamstein

Is there something like this (maybe this?) that provides an API so I can integrate it like any other model into my own website (in this case, https://cocalc.com)? I tried asking the Phind.com devs, but got ignored.

11 days ago

danenania

I would also love an API like this for integration with Plandex[1] (a terminal-based coding agent for complex tasks). Perplexity has an API but it only exposes various open source LLMs, not the search-enriched results from their main product.

It would be really cool if, when starting a coding task with Plandex, relevant docs/context from a web search could be automatically included in context via this kind of API. Currently urls can be loaded into context with `plandex load [url]` but you have to figure out which urls would be helpful to load yourself.

1 - https://github.com/plandex-ai/plandex

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Great, we're on it. We'll be looking into this project and keeping you updated at our changelog hub: https://hub.devv.ai/changelog. As soon as our API goes live, we'll post the announcement there.

11 days ago

algo_trader

Is the Plandex Cloud still active ?

I dont see a link to it on the github/website. DO i have to self host right now ?

Good luck with this

11 days ago

danenania

Thanks! Cloud is active yes. Just install Plandex as described here https://github.com/plandex-ai/plandex?tab=readme-ov-file#ins... — then run `plandex new` and you’ll be prompted to start an anonymous trial on cloud.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hi, Devv founder here.

That sounds interesting. Could you provide further details? By the way, integrating an API is part of our future plans. We plan to enable Devv integration with Slack, Linear, and websites in the future.

Also, if you want to discuss more, feel free to email me at jiayuan@devv.ai

11 days ago

2StepsOutOfLine

Regarding: "Fully localized: All of the above technologies can be executed locally, ensuring privacy and security through complete localization."

Does this mean you intend to let people self-host?

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hi, Devv founder here.

Yes, this is on our roadmap. We will launch "Devv for Teams" in the upcoming quarter. This new feature will enable seamless integration of internal team knowledge, including codebases, wikis, issue trackers, and logs.

11 days ago

afro88

If self hosted Devv for Teams supports BitBucket, Confluence, JIRA and Azure DevOps, the company I work for (v large enterprise) would be incredibly interested.

11 days ago

onel

I'm currently working on this and building it for some organizations. Would you be interested in a quick chat? My email is andrei at peermetrics.io

11 days ago

ActionHank

I would install right away if this is the case.

I really distrust putting my API keys into brand new and unknown websites, just seems like credentials harvesting to me.

11 days ago

onel

I'm currently building something similar for some organizations. Would you be interested in a quick chat? My email is andrei at peermetrics.io

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39923404

You might want to check out this project.

11 days ago

factorymoo

I asked it for an efficient way to sort a list in Python [1].

I'm running the code it gave me to try it out on a small list, it's been 10 minutes and it's still running. Might be something worth looking into.

Granted, the way I asked for this function was not the most natural.

[1] https://devv.ai/search?threadId=dl4c8if11c00

11 days ago

monsieurbanana

It won't be worth looking into, because there's nothing they (devv.ai) can do, short of trying some automated self-improvement loop a la devin where the AI writes code, evaluates the code, fixes issues as they arise... Still not worth, it's not their core business.

You're just hitting a limit of the LLMs, they won't give you bug-free code, specially not from the first time, specially not complex ones like galloping timsort.

11 days ago

danenania

Looks very cool! Congrats on the launch.

"For complex queries where Devv Agent infers your question before selecting appropriate solutions."

Could you expand on this a bit? What does "infers your question" mean?

It's not all that clear to me from the site or your post when Fast Mode vs. Agent Mode should be used. Is Fast Mode for answering conversational questions and Agent Mode for answers that involve writing code?

11 days ago

trirpi

Even without the AI generated content this is useful. Google seems to not index Github repositories so you can't search for specific variable names.

Feedback: I tried to click one of the links under "source" but it kept jumping down as the LLM-generated content was added.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hi, Devv founder here. It works fine here, did you just click the "related questions"? This will generate a follow-up answer.

11 days ago

hangonhn

Oh wow. This is quite decent. I asked it two questions that has historically tripped up either Google Gemini (what does an asterisks in the middle of a parameters list mean in Python) or ChatGPT (how to extend Fernet to use AES 256) and it got both of them right.

11 days ago

mdp2021

It seems quite useful, congratulations.

I am also pleasantly surprised it is not suffering a "hug of death" following the presentation here. I am curious about the need in resources for your engine? What kind of hardware is it running on?

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

frontend: next.js + react + vercel

backend: go/rust/python + gin + mysql + pinecone + es + redis + aws

llm: openai/azure + aws gpu + aws bedrock

11 days ago

FezzikTheGiant

how much does it cost

11 days ago

canadiantim

How does it compare to Greptile? Can I use it to ask questions about my own codebase?

11 days ago

nilsherzig

Ah nice, good work :) I might steal some design ideas for my own project haha https://github.com/nilsherzig/LLocalSearch

11 days ago

noashavit

Congrats on the launch! Great UI, better even than that of Perplexity :-)

11 days ago

lxe

Very polished. Would love to know more about the tech behind this.

11 days ago

FezzikTheGiant

Just curious looking at this, can any decent programmer build at least an extremely simple version of this? Considering whether it would be cool as a summer project.

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Creating a simple generative search engine is straightforward and can be accomplished over a weekend.

Essential components include: - A search engine API (such as Bing or Google's) - Integration of search engine results with a Large Language Model (LLM)

This framework, known as Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG), was the foundation for the initial version of Perplexity.

The challenging aspect lies in refining the generation outcomes, which involves more proprietary techniques.

11 days ago

FezzikTheGiant

Thanks! Will def try building one just for fun

9 days ago

datadrivenangel

Pretty cool!

Looks like there's an opportunity to improve the fast mode by caching the results for simple searches.

11 days ago

yoouareperfect

Very nice! I asked it for "React Suspense" and the results were pretty ok!

11 days ago

frenty_dev

Great, but what if perplexlity, you.com starts offering this mode too?

10 days ago

jiayuanzhang

This does not align with their vision.

10 days ago

Alifatisk

What is tha Fast option and Agent option?

11 days ago

moneywoes

any insights in how you built it?

11 days ago

jiayuanzhang

Hi, Devv founder here.

I've outlined some initial ideas in this post and may develop a more detailed article later on. Stay tuned!

11 days ago

wey-gu

congrats! Loved the agent mode, and the GitHub mode will be extremely useful.

11 days ago

anonu

how do you see a Chrome extension working?

11 days ago