The Ribbon Microphone
Comments
beAbU
leblancfg
Love his series, but you really have to keep in mind that his testing methodology is "reductionist": a microphone's quality can't just be distilled to its EQ response. Phase, transient response, clipping, etc. are also part of the equation.
edit: My "case in point" moment is Jim's (excellent!) DIY amp section in this video: https://youtu.be/wcBEOcPtlYk?si=jkehIfyo6AgeTLUo&t=918. Its EQ indeed sounds like the big names, but I'm sure you'll also notice how its dynamics also sound so thin. That's likely because solid state clipping != (saggy) tube overdrive.
beAbU
The takeaway for me on all his videos is that yes, these things are different, and they make a difference. But the difference is so subtle and nuanced that its nigh on impossible hear it, especially in the mix, played on a CD, over a stereo in a less-than-ideal treated room.
In one of his amp cab videos he has the appiphany that all his tone chasing was for naught, because he failed to consider that each and every sound he hears has been recorded. He cannot replicate the tone of how an amp or cab or speaker or guitar sounded, because that sound was recorded, where the mic, preamp, console and recording medium all added their own influence, and him listening to an amp in the room is not how that amp actually sounded. And live sound is a completely different animal all together!
phkahler
>> solid state clipping != (saggy) tube overdrive.
Clipping tends to produce odd harmonics, and blocks highs entirely in the flat parts.
Nonlinearity across the signal range can produce even harmonics and doesn't delete portions of small signals.
hammock
That's an amazing video, the first 30min Youtube I've seen that is densely packed with usefulness and without any fluff (in pace, audio and visuals).
I wish he had vocals in his comparison set.
I did love to see five different U87s tested. They have such a great reputation, and we used them so much when I was producing but it's amazing to me how variable they were from mic to mic. Knowing that I would avoid moving forward unless it's my own, that I know.
deckar01
I think people get too hung up on the natural frequency response of mics. A ribbon mic can achieve such a low noise floor with high sensitivity that high gain EQ stays clean.
ot
That is a ridiculously well made video, thanks for sharing!
ditn
An interesting feature of ribbon mics - because the ribbon is open at the front and the back, they reject sound from the side (and top/bottom) almost perfectly. You can arrange these cleverly in live or studio settings to amplify one thing while rejecting another completely.
A typical usecase for this is a singer with an acoustic guitar - one mic can pick up the guitar and almost fully reject the vocals, and vice-versa. Pretty cool.
paulorlando
It also led to the ability to sing in a quieter, more natural way, and gave birth to the "crooner" style. The earlier popularized carbon button microphone (invented in 1878) didn’t enable this personal singing style. If you look at one you might mistake it for the receiver of an old telephone handset (which in essence it was).
telesilla
It's a fascinating topic, how technology forms new genres of music. The microphone is often overlooked for its importance in 20th century music evolution.
01100011
Seems like you could get many of the benefits of a ribbon by using a laser to measure the vibration of the ribbon vs measuring the voltage. Of course the ribbon won't vibrate the same without a magnetic field applied so you could still supply that. You'll also just be picking up the vibrations at one point of the ribbon instead of the summation(?) of it's movement. But you won't have to worry so much about noise and shielding, while still retaining a low resonant frequency.
leoc
Relevant Wired articles from 2011:
* "Relics Reborn: Ribbon Microphones Rally for Vintage-Audio Geeks" https://www.wired.com/2011/01/gallery-ribbon-mics-part-1/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240118172709/https://www.wired...
* "Ribbon Microphones: Audio Icon You Can Build in Your Garage" https://www.wired.com/2011/01/ribbon-mics-part-2/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160326035336/https://www.wired... (the internal link from part 1 to part 2 in the Wired story is currently broken!)
(These were posted in 2011 by user mainland but didn't get any comments.)
huhtenberg
If the author's reading this, the site renders like this in a recent Firefox - https://i.imgur.com/lazMsqx.png
nemetroid
I don't have this particular issue, but instead the text size is hilariously huge. The CSS contains this fragment:
@media (min-resolution: 1.5dppx) {
:root {
font-size: 2.4rem;
}
}
mardef
AndrewStephens
This is a common problem with stylesheets based on tufte-css (an excellent project) which attempts to make things nice for mobile users but often makes the wrong assumption about screen geometry.
My blog had the same problem until I removed the css styles that triggered the font size.
nosolace
the author is in fact reading this and will make some changes
edit: haven't managed to replicate the absurdly huge image; what version # & os are you on?
sebazzz
In Safari it looks like there has been a “text-transform: lowercase” in the CSS.
sudobash1
Apparently aluminum ribbons can be used the other way too with some success. I recently came across a ribbon speaker: https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Tinfoil-Ribbon-Speaker/
Aachen
Is there a recording somewhere to hear what this sounds like?
dharma1
They have a bit different characteristics to dynamic/condenser mics - usually less high frequency content, and pronounced proximity effect.
Often used for horns, violin, guitar cabs - sources where you want to reduce "shrillness" but you can use them anywhere.
localghost3000
Amy Winehouse “Back to Black”. They tracked her vocals with an RCA ribbon mic.
Edit: fixed a typo
dylan604
Any Winehouse is such an unfortunate typo
localghost3000
Fixed! Thanks for catching.
beAbU
It sounds just like any other mic, with subtle differences audible only to the most trained ear.
Their frequency response is probably well characterised and documented, so you can simulate one by putting an appropriate EQ over a "normal" mic and the outcome will be indistinguishable from the real thing.
localghost3000
Disagree. Ribbon mics have a very distinct sound. The top end in particular. They also distort when pushed.
bluGill
Trained ear means one where you have good speakers (headphones may be better) and listen to the same thing on several different microphones. It isn't hard to train your ears if you want to spend the time.
beAbU
Do you listen to the music, or do you listen to the mic that it was recorded with?
glittershark
it looks like there's a recording linked at the end of the post
TrackerFF
Ribbon mics: Expensive, and notoriously fragile (to high SPL).
Some are so sensitive that you can actually destroy the ribbon by shutting the (mic) case lid too fast.
alexhornbake
As you’ve pointed out High SPL isn’t what breaks ribbons, it’s high SPL at low frequencies (ie wind/air moving frequencies, like those produced from a slamming wooden case lid.
Kick drums and bass guitar amps might not be a good match for a ribbon, but speech (with a pop filter) is fine.
Modern mics like those from Royer Labs can handle high SPL (cranked 100w guitar amp).
There are a few reasons why professionals still like ribbons for certain tasks: unlike condensers and dynamics, the resonant frequency of the ribbon is typically very low (20Hz), so you don’t get any peaks or artifacts when the source audio vibrates at the resonant frequency of the mic. Also, if you like the sound of your expensive mic preamplifier, the low output ribbon mics let you add gain/dirt/harmonic distortion which to some is pleasing to the ear.
Love that the op built his own, that’s really awesome.
afandian
Is the frequency response purely a function of the physical shape? I wonder why you can't use a similar diaphragm shape but as a condenser?
duped
No, it's a function of the acoustic, mechanical, and electrical properties of the entire system.
An easy way to understand this with dynamic mics is that the coil itself has some resistance, inductance, and capacitance that impedes the flow of the induced current through the coil. That impedance is frequency dependent, so the properties of the coil affect the frequency response.
Same principle applies to all transducers. The acoustic energy is converted into mechanical/kinetic energy and then into electrical energy. So to understand the frequency response you need to understand the acoustic, mechanical, and electrical impedances.
TrackerFF
Yeah, I have a Royer R-121 which I use in combination a SM57 on guitar cabs/amps - classic combo as you get the fullness and low-end of the Royer, and attack and top-end of the dynamic. But eyewatering price when considering it's only one microphone (though it has more use cases, like overhead).
With that said, every ribbon mic I've owned, I've felt like I've had to handle with kid gloves, just in case.
leblancfg
That’s great, but would love to hear samples to see if it’s any good!
skzv
I bought my father a RM-BIV3 ribbon microphone [0] to record violin. It's a beautiful piece.
t-3
Is this basically just the inverse of an electrostatic speaker? I've seen DIY builds of those using very thin films coated with some electrosensitive solution - would that work as an alternative for the foil/leaf used here?
frabert
No, a ribbon microphone is sort-of a dual of a dynamic microphone if you squint hard enough. An electrostatic speaker is closer to the inverse of a condenser (capacitor) microphone
yetihehe
Just to add: inverse of ribbon microphone is ribbon speaker [1].
[1] https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/pauls-posts/how-a-ribbon-speak...
BJones12
Thank you. I've dabbled in audio for 25 years and had no idea these existed.
deckar01
They don’t have any EMI shielding? I use an aluminum pedal box, cut holes, and screen them with fine steel mesh. The XLR terminal grounds the mic, cable, and transformer together. These should have such a low noise floor they can pick up LF signals like train tracks and subwoofers rumbling off in the distance.
sgarland
This was an excellent read! I dabbled in DIY audio gear as a teenager, mostly building headphone amps. Never dreamed of trying something as complex as this.
andybp85
I built a ribbon mic from a kit a while ago, and only broke the ribbon once putting it together! https://www.bumblebeepro.com/
Of course, as soon as i tried to record my guitarist with it, he cranked his amp and broke it again. Guitarists, man...
leoc
Recording drum kits with them must be a delicate business…
ge96
Is there a sample sound? Cool design
nosolace
there is (now) a sample recording, for anyone interested.
maztaim
One of my favorite winter fireside poems as a child.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45081/the-cremation-o...
dwdz
All lowercase text is so hard to read.
quinnjh
capitals could damage the ribbon
leoc
ifyouthinkthatsbadbearinmindthatbothcapitallettersinlowercasetextandspacesbetweenwordsarefairlyrecentinventions
Rexxar
And what about changing direction on each line ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon
mncharity
nd y dnt rly nd bth vwls nd spcs s sm lngg grps ntlly drppd vwls whn thy gt spcs
BizarroLand
𓁑 𓁒 𓁓 𓁔 𓁕 𓁖 𓁗
𓄒 𓄓 𓄔 𓄕 𓄖 𓄗 𓄘
𓀊 𓀋 𓀌 𓀍 𓀎 𓀏 𓀌
𓋥 𓋦 𓋧 𓋨 𓋩 𓋪 𓋫
𓉢 𓉣 𓉤 𓉥 𓉦 𓉧 𓉨
ikari_pl
on my machine, the text is also gigantic, and some of it is outside the screen :')
Aachen
I also fell for the purple text that didn't turn out to be a link
This is quite the style
jacknews
i didn't find it hard to read, personally
perhaps the author is anti-capital-ist?
having an entire separate alphabet just to mark the start of sentences, and proper names, does seem extremely wasteful
on the microphone, it looks like quite a delicate process
i've modded some cheap aliexpress microphones (eg following https://audioimprov.com/AudioImprov/Mics/Entries/2015/12/20_...) but i'd want to see some measurements or reviews before embarking on something like this one
TacticalCoder
In the good old mandatory "headphones are speakers" spirit (which us kids at 12 years old had fun with by plugging our headphones in the mic input to act as a mic) I'll mention that ribbon tweeters in speakers are a thing too. My floor-standing loudspeakers have two tweeters, one of which is a ribbon tweeter.
The vertical tweeters in the vid here are ribbon tweeters (same speakers but not my vid):
For anyone interested in how mucrophones can sound different, check out Jim Lill's video [1] where he A/B tests a bunch of mics against one another and industry standards.
He has a whole series of videos where he explores what contributes the most to "guitar tone", all the way from the strings to your ears and in between. It's a bit of an eye opener to say the least. Highly, highly recommended.
1: https://youtu.be/4Bma2TE-x6M