Why Are Viral Capsids Icosahedral?

79 points
1/21/1970
5 days ago
by surprisetalk

Comments


dekhn

We used to joke in my biophysics grad program that basically everything was determined by its surface area to volume ratio.

19 hours ago

IAmBroom

"First, assume a spherical chicken."

16 hours ago

NooneAtAll3

> even though evolution is contingent at a local level (such as a specific protein sequence or the shape of a flower), it is remarkably predictable at a global level (such as the very existence of proteins and flowers across many species)

to be fair... flowers are a very recent invention that appeared only after the dinosaurs got wiped out and clean slate allowed co-evolution of flowers and pollinators to occur

20 hours ago

yorwba

Flowering plants (angiosperms) appeared during the Cretaceous before dinosaurs got wiped out, and there is fossil evidence of insects pollinating non-flowering plants (gymnosperms) like ferns and confers even earlier than that: https://repository.si.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/152b12d...

19 hours ago

meindnoch

>an estimated 70 percent of viral capsids known to date are icosahedral, shaped like tiny soccer balls.

Soccer balls are not icosahedra. The archetypal soccer ball is a truncated icosahedron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncated_icosahedron

19 hours ago

yorwba

There are a few pictures of truncated icosahedra in the article, alongside several other shapes that are not icosahedra. The point is that they have icosahedral symmetry. The L is important.

18 hours ago

JackFr

I was going to comment pedantically that soccer balls were dodecahedrons not icosahedrons, but in reading the article, I came to realize that truncated icosahedrons are the same as truncated dodecahedrons.

This was such a delightful realization I felt the need to comment anyway.

18 hours ago

zem

that is indeed a delightful realisation! akin to when I noticed that a cube and an octahedron both had a cross section that was a regular hexagon.

12 hours ago

meindnoch

Hmm. I'm sorry, but truncated dodecahedra are different from truncated icosahedra.

Truncated dodecahedra are made from twelve 10-gon and twenty triangular faces. Truncated icosahedra are made from twenty hexagonal and twelve pentagonal faces.

11 hours ago

1-more

And that archetypal soccer ball design is called the Telstar and named for a communications satellite, fun fact. I think before 1968 the volleyball shape was more popular https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adidas_Telstar

19 hours ago

strgrd

do you know what the modifier "like" means in the sentence you quoted, or are you just being annoyingly pedantic

19 hours ago

avereveard

eh but also organic chemistry only does well 30 and 60 degrees

20 hours ago

BigTTYGothGF

The universe seems perfectly happy to have, for example, 5-member rings tho.

18 hours ago

dekhn

See buckyballs as a trivial refutation of your point.

17 hours ago

HappySweeney

Are buckyballs organic?

17 hours ago

andrewflnr

Formally, yes. "Organic chemistry" is not too far off a synonym for "chemistry with carbon involved".

16 hours ago

IAmBroom

"Not too far off" = "exactly defined as".

16 hours ago

andrewflnr

I wasn't sure if there were any weird edge cases, but yeah.

14 hours ago

dekhn

I mean, I don't think diamonds are considered "organic"; same for graphite. But that's where the term "organic" itself starts to break down as a category.

13 hours ago

andrewflnr

I was also thinking carbonates in a geologic context.

12 hours ago

dekhn

Yes! Not sure why you're asking- things don't have to be created by biological processes to be organic (this concept is totally unrelated to "organic" in the supermarket).

17 hours ago

pfortuny

Not in 3D.

20 hours ago

adrian_b

That image just demonstrates what was mentioned in the article, that the sphere cannot be covered only with regular hexagons, but a part of them must be replaced with regular pentagons, so the angles that are multiples of 30 degrees are not sufficient.

So the previous poster was right.

17 hours ago

pfortuny

An angle projected on a plane is not the same as a 3D angle.

Also see the structure of diamond (109 degs).

16 hours ago