StarFighter 16-Inch
Comments
lhl
alexaholic
> personally I'd still wait for some reviews from some real world people
Fine, wait, but do encourage everybody else to buy, otherwise you won't see any review from any "real world people"
mixmastamyk
There’s quite a few mostly-positive reviews on Reddit and I’m quite happy with their Starlite.
simonjgreen
What an unfortunate time for these niche hardware companies to be launching new hardware. Framework, StarLabs, System76, (I wonder if Tuxedo will release something). The RAM prices must be killing them. Even if they increase prices to accommodate, I know quite a lot of folks who are simply punting any purchasing until things calm down.
InsideOutSanta
I just ordered my Framework without any memory or storage, hoping that by the time it arrives, I'll be able to pick up some RAM and an SSD for a more reasonable price. If not, I'll just grab something from a drawer and use it underspecced until prices normalize.
pcblues
Sensible thought. I very much hope there is a glut of one-three year old ram and GPUs on the market in about one year when the AI market "cools" and the ear-marked components return to the market.
The banks that lent the AI industry the money are already trying to sell their debt.
chao-
Unless you meant buying an entire server (instead of laptop/desktop components), it won't work out the way you are describing. Prices may come down, but the components for the datacenters market aren't fungible with the components for laptop or desktop. You might not know what is being "earmarked" in this case?
Yes, the DRAM dies all come from the same wafer supply and fab capacity, and those limits are the cause of the current prices. However, once the memory OEMs have packaged DRAM dies into something like an LRDIMM or SOCAMM, the cake is baked. It's no longer usable in a laptop or desktop. No amount of X-year-old LRDIMMs (hypothetically) flooding the market will be useful for anyone's desktop or laptop. And then there's HBM, where the dies are directly on-package with the CPU or GPU.
Second-hand, revalidated server DRAM components may contribute somewhat to a price decrease, but those won't be the components you or I will be purchasing (unless you run a true server platform as a desktop, in which case, shine on you crazy diamond!).
The same is partly true for GPUs: there are PCIe versions, but most are OAM or SXM modules. You might be able to jury-rig an SXM module into a desktop? Adapter cards exist for at least some SXM versions, and you could figure out the cooling somehow? But it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
oompydoompy74
I have some amount of confidence that the sellers on AliExpress will figure out how to create cheap hardware that makes use out of all of this when it hits the secondary market.
chao-
Yes, but also no?
For standard desktop CPUs, the memory controller doesn't support the signaling required to communicate with an RDIMM. There's no clever AliExpress adapter that will magically give a component within your CPU capabilities that it simply doesn't have.
However, if you have a true workstation, you don't even need some adapter from AliExpress! Xeon 600, Threadripper 7000, Threadripper 9000 all support RDIMMs natively.
hnav
Whenever something like this happens the shortage is exacerbated by hoarders and get rich types. For example used Mac Minis are almost certainly going to find another widespread use or be really underpriced in the secondary market.
thayne
I wonder if a surplus of these server ram components would lead to consumer hardware designed to make use of them though.
danparsonson
Unfortunately most of it will likely be HBM and datacenter GPUs and therefore useless for consumers.
nixon_why69
Datacenter GPUs are still self contained and speak over pcie though, right? So its a form factor and cooling problem, not an insurmountable one.
chao-
Maybe not insurmountable in the "laws of physics" sense?
However, it may be so costly in cobbled-together parts, and in time to deal with unsupported drivers and/or VBIOS, that it is not worth it compared to using a proper server hardware with proper SXM sockets. Nvidia is also doing a lot of new, exciting things with networking that may make their SXM-based GPUs require even more just-so hardware support as time goes on.
Getting older SXM3 GPUs (i.e. for V100's, from 2017) working via PCIe adapters has been done reliably. However, here is someone who did that successfully, and spent a chunk of time last year trying to do the same for SMX5 (H100) and failing:
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/sxm5-h100-...
We were all spoiled by the era from 2005-2020, when you could squint at a "server" configuration and see that it was expensive, high-binned, commodity hardware with some extra RAS and OOBM features. You could buy parts harvested from a retired server based on Xeon E5-1680v3 and drop them in your workstation. Or you could buy an entire single-socket Xeon E5 v3 server, plop in a GPU, and mostly use it as a workstation! As-is!
Now the serious servers have SOCAMM memory, 400Gbps networking, EDSFF SSDs, maybe are configured for CXL 3.0, et cetera. The hardware itself is so divergent that it isn't swap-in-plug-and-play with desktops, even for some high-end workstations.
nixon_why69
I really appreciate your comment and the difficulties, but if we're hypothetically talking about $100k hardware for pennies on the dollar.. it looks like the problems are all analog? Like ok, add power supply on top of form factor and cooling but all of the silicon is compatible, right? If (if!) we are talking about pennies on the dollar then those problems are solvable.
For example, if I am a homelab, I don't necessarily need the integrated SFP networking stuff to work, I'm happy with my single overpowered GPU. I don't need CXL either, I just want one badass H200 running in my rig. Maybe Shenzhen will productive that?
chao-
There already are SXM5-to-PCIe adapter cards, but from what little I've seen, they are all a bit dodgy. If (if!) there really is some flood of used/decommissioned H100s/H200s into the market, perhaps that will motivate iterations and mass production of these, and they become more reliable?
It is not 100% out of the question. I would also love to see it happen, but am being realistic about the chances, as a check on my own usual optimism.
I think the more likely scenario is, rather than a flood of decommissioned Hopper-era servers being separated into parts, and the parts sold for "pennies on the dollar", we will see entire 4x H100 servers (CPU and RAM included) sold for "dimes on the dollar" to small-and-mid-sized businesses and labs. A formerly-$250K server sold for $50K after six years. Or $20K after ten years. Something like that.
Zetaphor
Most are using SXM sockets which would require an adapter to pcie
broodbucket
Always the play if you're comfortable sourcing and installing your own because their store will always have a decent markup.
morserer
Smart move!
You have lpcamm2 just sitting around in a drawer? Or did you get last-gen?
InsideOutSanta
Went with the AMD option for this reason.
GuB-42
These laptops are also kind of expensive for the specs, they can afford to increase the prices. Entry-level and gaming hardware is probably suffering the most as they compete in getting the best specs for cheapest.
Niche and premium products sell something else: build quality (StarLabs), repairability/upgradability (Framework), Linux compatibility (System76). You don't buy these if you are just looking at performance/price.
pjmlp
True, but contrary to the fruity models, some of these are upgradedable.
My Asus netbook started with basic configuration and was maximised during its lifetime, just like any PC desktop.
close04
Except that if you want to save on RAM you'll also have to pick the lower resolution screen and lower rated CPU. These aren't easy upgrades later on.
pjmlp
Still better than no upgrades at all like on Apple land, back to the 8 and 16 home computer days, only external upgrades and cable salad.
robotresearcher
(Exchanged for the largest jump in performance and efficiency the industry had seen for many years).
tkz1312
at least for a framework they are very easy upgrades tbh
Tade0
I love the fact that the bezel is held on by magnets.
Last time I tried to replace the display in a laptop, I had plastic bits of bezel flying all around.
notjustanymike
I wonder if this benefits Framework because users can order with little or no RAM, and upgrade a later date?
zamadatix
This page shows an image of a laptop motherboard with socketed memory https://us.starlabs.systems/cdn/shop/products/B5i7PCB-01x200... but it actually has BGA soldered LPDDR5X.
I wonder why the price difference between the 8845HS and the 285H is more than the cost of some complete 8845HS based systems. Also a shame one can't opt out of the storage or accessories like (yet another) measly 65W USB C+USB A GaN charger.
Other than those things, it actually looks decently exciting. I love the 16:10 + high resolution. Screen brightness isn't amazing, but also better than average. Glad to see 120 hz+ across all of the options. Privacy kill switch is great but the removable magnetic webcam seems a bit overkill/complicated given the kill switch (a simple physical slide would have been plenty as well). The hardware options aren't too bad for an open/Linux focused device. 6 USB ports + HDMI + audio ports is great, given the thickness it would have been cool to throw in a built in ethernet port, SD slot, and DP out to negate most of the need for the dock.
If I hadn't already bought a laptop this year this would probably be high on my list.
negura
i would highlight two non-tech strengths of starlabs as well: they're based in Europe and from personal experience they have really good customer service
skinwill
They use the same image on their mini pc's page. https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/byte
miek
Excellence. I like everything, and the open warranty is nice: "Our 1-year limited warranty allows you to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty."
I'd love to see more than 5 years of updates, but there is so much to love here, I can look past that!
DiabloD3
They don't sell you your OS, that's the big surface area that companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc have to swallow.
They also don't make these computers and are at the whim of their ODM, so unless you opt for Coreboot/Libreboot, there wouldn't be a possibility for that.
https://doc.coreboot.org/mainboard/starlabs/starfighter_mtl.... The previous version is already upstreamed, apparently.
retired
I’m unable to order this laptop without a charging brick which is now illegal in the EU.
Same goes for the standard one year warranty. Should be two at minimum.
I had my country configured to Belgium while testing this.
nottorp
Do they actually have a business presence in the EU?
If not, how would those rules apply to them?
Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses.
Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.
looperhacks
They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.
Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.
cromka
> They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.
Seized by customs because they don't offer 2y warranty or include USB charger?
No. That's ridiculous. You can import whatever you want.
fuzzy2
> You can import whatever you want.
Quite the opposite, in fact. When customs finds that any rule, like the CE declaration on electric devices, is broken, they can and will seize such goods.
You could of course attempt to circumvent or mislead customs. After all, they don't have the capacity to check all imported goods in-depth. That however would usually be a criminal offense.
cromka
CE is important, but we're talking about trade regulations, not technical here, so I took a mental shortcut. But you're right. Though effectively all modern products are CE certified. All starlabs need to do is to have that CE stamp and they can ship it to customers in EU without having EU entity.
maxerickson
Wouldn't customs seizing the device be a bigger problem for the importer?
yreg
From consumer perspective it's the problem of the seller. I would ask for a refund and if they refused I would do a chargeback.
They don't have to do business in EU if they don't want to follow the rules.
yreg
They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
stronglikedan
> They are mandated
That's nice and ideal, but unenforceable in reality unless the company has a presence in the EU.
bragr
Genuinely asking, if someone really wanted to play that game with the EU, could the EU escalate to preventing the import of the products?
tremon
Of course they could. The products could be impounded at customs.
ignoramous
> unenforceable
Law makers aren't stupid: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2025/7728... (the Hauge Convention 2019 has been ratified by the UK has been in effect ~10mo ago).
The UK wants to rejoin the Lugano Convention, too; though, it remains to be seen if EFTA/EU will let them in.
cromka
> Regardless of where they are located.
Absolutely not true at all.
echoangle
Why not? Isn't that what the EU law says?
cromka
That you have to offer that regardless where are you located? No. It doesn't say that. Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws. If you ship them from outside, like Star labs clearly does, you, as a private cotizen, can import whatever you like as long as it meets basic CE requirements.
echoangle
> Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws.
Wrong.
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/94249/are-foreign-se...
Shipping from outside doesn’t mean that the buyer doesn’t get protection.
cromka
How about you read all the responses there and come back with s specific answer.
yreg
Are you claiming that the law doesn't say what we say it does or are you claiming that you can break the law without any consequences?
drnick1
> Regardless of where they are located.
This is clearly nonsense. There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this.
echoangle
> There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this.
Well they can turn back shipments at customs. And they can collect fines if any leadership of the company comes to the EU. If you stay outside the EU for the rest of your life, you're probably fine.
yreg
They can't jail you, but they can do quite a lot.
They can seize your goods. They can order app stores to take down your apps. They can order payment providers to stop doing business with you in the EU.
Most businesses would also prefer to avoid having outstanding fines in foreign countries even if they don't currently have presence there because it's a giant liability in case of looking for funding.
nottorp
And those EU consumer protection laws apply outside the EU?
I know that USers think their laws apply everywhere, but that's just a myth.
echoangle
In the opinion of the EU, they do as long as the customer is in the EU.
Everything else is just enforcement.
foldr
They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
alfiedotwtf
Ask Kim Dot Com about that myth
pimterry
Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies.
If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to.
There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
yreg
Same goes for e.g. GDPR compliance. You need to comply with GDPR when offering services to individuals in the EU no matter where you are based.
aduty
You realize that the EU as a whole believes this and actively attempts to enforce it on citizens of other countries, right?
j16sdiz
They are a UK company.
lonelyasacloud
It's not $megacorp, try contacting them and asking.
harel
They do reply on webchat and are quite nice.
throwaway27448
What is illegal about the charging brick?
postepowanieadm
It's not warranty, it's Gewährleistung.
Zardoz84
doesn't charge by USB-C ?
wolfi1
USB-C is required from 2027 on
Someone
FTA: Experience the power of our minuscule Gallium Nitride charger. With 65 watts of charging power over USB-C
walthamstow
Wait til you hear about Hacker News' level of compliance with the GDPR
klez
I'm curious: why is hacker news non-GDPR-compliant?
walthamstow
You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction. It's a grey area, it'd have to be tested in court. I highly doubt anyone will bring a case though. That's like calling the police on your own drug dealer. (IANAL)
KaiserPro
> which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction.
You're gonna have to point to part of the regulation where thats not allowed. there is a mechanism for deletion. so long as its done within 30 days its still within spec
walthamstow
I don't know it inside out but I'm following the basic standard "it should be as easy to withdraw consent as give it"
The overall point being that if you want to use a product/service, you'll look past minor violations of local regulations on account deletion or charger bundling.
gcr
Giving consent required you to receive an email to verify your account. Revoking consent requires you to send an email. It’s symmetric, like poetry.
bityard
You're admitting to not actually knowing the law, yet accusing someone of being in violation of it...
stronglikedan
reddit in a nutsh... oh wait...
jve
> You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction
GDPR has nothing to do with friction I beleve.
Our lawyer told me that GDPR also applies to paper records, so there is some real-world friction right there.
The important part that there is a right - in whatever good/broken process it is enveloped is irrelevant.
Moreover does HN host PII data? Not if you don't give it to them.
dgellow
I don’t see how that has anything to do with GDPR. An email is a perfectly fine way to initiate the process. It’s not a gray area
drnick1
No one cares about that idiotic law here. HackerNews is hosted in the US of A, and Europeans who don't like some aspect of it are free to go elsewhere.
4gotunameagain
This comment is so full of freedom that the oil from my face went missing
teekert
They are free to charge you extra for taking the charger out of the box. So I'd grant them a bit of civil disobedience on this one and just take that nice GaN charger.
I can see the EU's take on this, and maybe overall this will even be good. I have some nice Anker chargers and can charge everything we have at home with them (added some USB-C to ligthning/micro-USB thingies here and there), but I'd be a bit annoyed if the EU would force my company operating with small margins to have 2 versions of my packaging workflow.
Maybe they should just "encourage" good behaviour? With a law that is less forcing, ie just say: "If you offer a version without charger, the price must be the same as with charger. " That would (slightly) encourage leaving it out, while not forcing companies' hands.
The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one. 65W GaN chargers are a nice sweet-spot at the moment (size/power/price-wise), ie Ikea has one at 14 eur), wouldn't mine having one or two extra.
retired
The easiest option to implement would be to have separate SKUs for the charger and the laptop. And not three SKUs: laptop with charger, laptop without charger, separate charger.
If you ship to multiple countries you can reduce the SKUs even more as the laptop SKU isn’t country specific anymore.
Offering a version without the charger for the same price would not reduce ewaste which is the point.
IshKebab
The laptop SKU probably would be country specific due to keyboard layouts though.
retired
Forgot about that one! And EU devices need an engraved trash-can (WEEE symbol)
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/l...
amarant
Nice Glyph for the delete key! I wonder if that would be seen as compliance...?
throwuxiytayq
> The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one
You do realize you’re paying for the charger, right? And you don’t like the option of not having to purchase the charger?
teekert
Sure. And support is paying for people that are buying chargers that are too weak. Or otherwise crappy.
This is a Dutch source, but BTO charged 25 eur to remove the charger [0], because they prefer not to deal with people trying their own wonky chargers. Ok, so this was a 100 W+ laptop, arguably different (BTO only does this with 100 W+ models).
[0]: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/245774/bto-rekent-25-euro-boete-...
retired
BTO does that because their laptops use more than what USB-PD can deliver (240 watt). That is an understandable use case for supplying a power adapter.
throwuxiytayq
Just display a warning during purchase. This is a UI/communication issue. It’s up to the customer to decide whether they want to risk the opt out.
I bought a laptop without a charger the other day, plugged it into a charger I already had, and it works great (even under load). YMMV.
ulrikrasmussen
I have been using this for about a month and I love it. The screen looks great, the keyboard is great, the trackpad is great (I have been using Lenovos for ~20 years and though I couldn't live without the trackpoint). The battery life is more than enough for my usage during my daily commute and way better than the mere 1.5 hours I could squeeze out of my old Thinkpad P1.
I genuinely don't think there is anything I would want changed on this laptop.
vb-8448
How does it compare to a MacBook Pro? (if you ever used one)
I'm looking get rid of my MacBook Pro, and I'd like to switch to a Linux laptop, but I'm really worried about battery and trackpad.
mixmastamyk
Better software vs better hardware. Freedom and privacy vs luxury handcuffs.
vb-8448
Actually Mac software isn't that bad. The only thing I don't really like is the cmd+tab behaviour (and any third party alternative feels subpar) and the Finder.
marknutter
Can't you run linux on a macbook pro?
jdhawk
not well
ulrikrasmussen
I have never owned an Apple product, but I have helped other people from time to time. It's hard to say because I'm not used to it, but the trackpad feels really snappy and precise, and the 120hz display also helps making it feel really smooth when scrolling
komadori
Would you like to have a version with a TrackPoint even if you have managed to live without it?
With all these boutique laptop brands, I hope that one of them will eventually produce a pointing stick keyboard offer a route off Lenovo.
ulrikrasmussen
I feared that I would miss it too much, but after a week I stopped reaching for it with my finger.
krunck
Never. I'd rather use an external mouse than use a track pad.
alex_x
what's your average battery life?
ulrikrasmussen
I am not sure since I have never gotten to zero. But I would think I could easily get 6-7 hours out of it, although it depends a lot on the type of work I do and whether I am in meetings. I use IntelliJ and run heavy test suites all the time, and that does drain the battery faster.
LiamPowell
Why are "premium" laptop vendors still putting vents on the bottom of their machines? Did they never try actually putting their laptop on their laps and realise how much that design sucks?
bluGill
These are not laptop computers, they are notebooks. The only laptop I've personally seen had a 80286 processor... We call them laptops, but historically that name is wrong.
While it is possible to use a notebook on your lap, you are not supposed to. It is a terrible place that is unergonomic. You are supposed to put them on a table of some sort. If you are using it for more than something quick you should have a separate keyboard and mouse (ie attached to a docking station on your desk). The portable form factor is useful for meetings, presentations, or other such - but for real work they are terrible.
Since the lap what it was designed for, and a lap is a bad idea anyway: putting vents on the bottom isn't bad.
apetrovic
I frequently sit on my balcony, with my MacBook Pro in my lap. I'm still alive.
I also frequently use that computer, that doesn't have vents on the bottom, for watching movies in bed. And I don't need to think about vents. My last non-Apple computer was some ThinkPad, with vents on the bottom, and I remember always chasing some book to put under the computer to make the vents free. Boy, how I hated that.
bluGill
I doubt any computer you can lift will kill you if you put it on your lap. It might be uncomfortable, but it won't kill you. (I'm not about to put some of VAXen I've seen on my lap even though I can technically lift them, but...)
People do all kinds of terrible things to their body. That you do something and seem to be getting away with it doesn't mean you should. Talk to a real doctor trained in this (your regular doctors probably is not) for details.
apetrovic
When I'm working, I'm at my desk, with a keyboard, mouse, and monitors. But the reason why I have a light laptop instead of some beefy desktop computer is the convenience of having a computer when I'm not at my desk. At a café. Or to check emails when I'm at relatives'. Or to work on my hobby project in a car, waiting for my daughter to finish her training session. Or to be next to me, on a carpet, while I'm checking why the network under the TV is behaving strangely.
I've been living laptop life since 2002, IIRC. In all that time, the most stupid design decision I saw was on some HP EliteBook, where designers, in their infinite wisdom, put tiny legs on a laptop. Those four stupid pieces of plastic and rubber bite my legs every time when I try to use the convenience of having a mobile computer.
Fans on the bottom of the laptop case are firmly in the second place on my list. And no amount of ackchyually you're holding it wrong will change that.
mixmastamyk
Depends, this is a desktop replacement, not ultra portable. From a gravity perspective it makes sense.
echoangle
How does gravity make vents at the bottom useful? A normal non-passive laptop uses forced convection with fans, the natural convection should be completely negligible in that case.
mixmastamyk
Vents in the bottom just make sense, does it have to be explained? The fans aren't going to be running full blast during idle times or when portable for example. Saves power to use gravity.
Macs don't have to worry about that since they made a huge efficiency jump with M1. Before that they overheated due to poor thermals.
j16sdiz
Your answer don't make sense.
Hot air is lighter. Gravity help hot air go up, not down.
echoangle
Arguably it helps so the air can go through the top holes in the keyboard better, you probably want openings on top and bottom for that. But I still think this effect is negligible compared to the fan. I don’t think you would notice a temperature difference if you rotated your laptop 90 degrees with the keyboard vertical.
tarjei_huse
A framework competitor! Most of all I love the keyboard. Full size arrow keys as well as home, end and page up/down nearby.
I wish framework laptops could come with multiple possible keyboard layouts like the one on the picture.
puzzlingcaptcha
StarLabs predates Framework by a couple years. Framework just does advertising to geeks better.
ghosty141
Framework actually ships its products and has tons of public reviews etc. way before StarLabs got a single laptop out.
14113
Incorrect: Star Labs have been shipping laptops since 2018, before Framework was even a company.
devmor
It also helps that Framework actually releases their products when they say they will.
maratc
On the other hand, full size arrow keys make this a non-starter for me. I need to position my fingers over the arrow keys without looking at them, and half-size allows me to do that by touch feeling.
culebron21
I feel the opposite -- with half-size up/down keys, it's too easy to mis-press them. I guess it's a matter of habit.
rixed
For that exact same reason I've been avoiding half-sized up/down keys and full arrow keys, as well as mate screen and weight, have been my first filters when browsing for laptops. How annoying must it be to design those machines with such a variety of tastes :)
layer8
> Full size arrow keys
They are full size in height, but not in width.
What’s also annoying is that the function key row isn’t full height.
backscratches
Older than framewank, and more replaceable parts.
wtallis
Is there something new here? The processor options seem to be two generation old Intel, one generation old Intel, and one generation old AMD.
miek
I can't imagine the supply chain challenges inherent to startup laptop manufacturers. I think it's "go with what you have access to at reasonable prices, or forget about it. "
wtallis
I think Framework is a good example of how smaller laptop OEMs end up shipping late, often on the order of three quarters. This is something else entirely, if any of these configurations are recent arrivals (I don't think they are).
MobiusHorizons
I don’t believe they actually make the hardware. I know sytem76 always just rebadges Clevo hardware. You were basically paying for Linux to be preinstalled and for the Linux focused support.
EDIT. Actually it looks like I was wrong about that. They do apparently at least make their own chassis’s unsure about the motherboard’s or screens though.
bluGill
system76 does not make their laptops, they do make some of their desktop lines though. System76 however is large enough that they get input into what Clevo designs - they Clevo often changes the hardware internals, but system76 ensures that the new hardware still has linux drivers. (in some cases system76 has shipped a laptop with something announced as not supported on linux, but this is rare and the rest of the features still works, and this is only done for a feature they figure linux users wouldn't use anyway)
System76 has long been working on their own laptop - every few years they make a progress report announcement - but I don't expect to see it anytime soon.
criddell
This might be a dumb question, but for a dedicated Linux computer why would Starlabs choose Intel or AMD over an ARM design?
For a Windows computer, x64 makes sense because backwards compatibility is a big deal. But a Linux machine doesn't have the same problem, at least not to the same degree. Couldn't an ARM-based design be used to make a Linux laptop with Apple-like performance per watt?
SV_BubbleTime
They’re still going to be some point somewhere where you can find the amd64 version of a binary and not the ARM version.
I agree with you that it would be more rare than trying to live in Windows ARM world, but I’m not sure it’s entirely a lossless experience yet for your personal computer.
izacus
Which high performance Linux supported SoC should they use on your opinion?
aidenn0
This might be driven by coreboot support?
mixmastamyk
Yes, believe it takes a year or so for full support of a new chip/set. They are finally making progress on AMD as well, despite poor docs.
https://us.starlabs.systems/blogs/news/coreboot-on-the-amd-s...
dylan604
I have the Intel Core i9 in my 2019 MBP, and it gets so damn hot. How do the ones offered here compare? I'm not one to upgrade frequently, but the heat of this thing makes me go looking. Luckily, it sits on a stand on a desk with more 9s than github is up.
wtallis
A 2019 MacBook Pro would have an Intel Skylake processor (N-th re-release), made on Intel's stagnant 14nm process. The older Intel option for the StarFighter has its CPU cores made on an Intel process two generations newer, and the rest of the chiplets made by TSMC. The newer Intel option moves the CPU chiplet to TSMC as well. They're in a very different league for power efficiency than your current machine, both from the fab improvements and from having a microarchitecture that's not from 2015.
dylan604
Okay, but what does that mean for the temp of the case while sitting in one's lap. Can it be done without getting second degree burns?
wtallis
Case temperature is very much at the discretion of the laptop OEM. Some OEMs take regulatory limits on skin temperature seriously and ship a well-tuned thermal control system that keeps the case at a comfortable temperature. Others push close to the legal limits to keep fan noise in check. Others ship plastic enclosures so they can get away with even higher temperatures (since plastic has lower thermal conductivity than metal, and thus a harder time cooking your thighs) at the expense of more noise.
The StarFighter has a metal case, so when running at high power levels (45W sustained according to the spec sheet) it will either get uncomfortably hot somewhere on the case or at least a bit noisy from the fans, but since it's a bit thicker than the 2019 MacBook Pro it should be able to cool itself more effectively. But when running at the performance level you're used to the power draw should be plenty low enough to make temperature and fan noise not a problem: roughly double the peak CPU performance means you can turn down the power limits a lot and still have a better-performing machine.
oofabz
Every generation of CPU has high-power and low-power variants. The i9 is a high power variant that generates a lot of heat but what you want is the low power variant.
I recommend looking for a used laptop with a Core Ultra 7 165U (<$500) or a Core Ultra 7 268V (>$1000). Maybe an HP EliteBook. Either one would be faster than your old i9 and run much cooler.
sam_lowry_
Does it suspend to RAM with echo mem > /sys/power/state and stays there for a couple of weeks on battery?
If not, I will keep my Intel Thinkpad T14 G2, The Last of the Mohicans that can.
theMMaI
Most devices still support S3 sleep, it's just disabled by default as s2idle (modern standby) has become the default. You can almost always re-enable S3 sleep if you really want to, but on modern devices it typically only takes a few seconds to resume from S4 (suspend-to-disk) which technically is safer and more reliable. Also you can always use suspend-then-hibernate if you really want fast resume during the day, but long battery life when it's more than an hour or so.
sam_lowry_
Dunno about other manufacturers, but Thinkpads removed S3. Stock BIOS on some T14 G3 had S3 had it, but it was removed by subsequent BIOS updates.
The notebook market is dead for me if the notebook can't sleep on 0.3% battery per hour and if it can't wake up within a second or so.
So far only macbooks and >5 years old Intel notebooks can.
colordrops
My Thinkpad p16s does not have s3 sleep. And s2idle lasts for a couple hours before it dies because every device has to sleep before it goes to true idle, but can never get all the USB devices to sleep. It's crap. S3 worked fine and was robust.
backscratches
Modern devices generally do not have s3 anymore
izacus
I don't know what "most" in your case means, but pretty much none of the new laptops I've seen have S3 support available in their UEFI. And even if you somehow patch it in, the peripherals don't have drivers anymore that would successfully resume.
mixmastamyk
Linux does, my 12th gen Intel does, one year newer AMD doesn't.
999900000999
The prices are still way too high.
You're better off buying a Dell XPS on sale, I saw one for about 800$ the other day with 32 GB of ram.
Dell has committed to actual Linux support.
I don't feel like paying a Linux nerd tax when most Windows laptops are fine.
Lenovo seems to have the best support here. Otherwise enjoy the adventure in driver land!
bityard
I love cheap secondhand Dells and have been running them for decades. But it's absolutely the case that their build quality has been going steadily downhill for a long time, even for their business line laptops.
This laptop looks to be more in line with a MacBook in terms of build quality, with a price to match. It's being sold as a Linux laptop, what makes you think there will be driver issues?
delamon
Lenovo sells ThinkPad T-series laptops as “Linux-supported.” However, if you happen to buy an AMD version of one of these laptops, you may be surprised by how poorly the Wi‑Fi works. It’s been several years since the T14 Gen4 was released, and yet the Wi‑Fi is still not stable.
999900000999
I’m not convinced here.
All the lower scale manufacturers have to charge more to make a profit. Plus most just white label an existing brand.
The other feedback in this thread isn’t great.
As for drivers, I meant for Windows laptops running Linux. But that’s pretty rare now.
kokada
I think there is a very specific niche that this notebook is target for, and this definitely doesn't seem for you, the kind of person that having a cheaper laptop is more important than some of the unique features than this one or a Framework 13 Pro have.
For the unique part of this laptop that AFAIK a Dell XPS won't have is the Coreboot BIOS, that also probably means better support in the long term for BIOS updates.
To be clear, this is also not a laptop for me (but I did pre-order a Framework 13 Pro), but saying "nerd tax" or "anyone who buys one is either giving a donation or an idiot" like the other comment is just focusing in one part (the price) and not looking at the other.
999900000999
The Framework pro is much more competitive price wise. I’m actually interested, but I’ll let you review it first.
The framework doesn’t support Coreboot though.
Different markets have different price ranges.
Linux nerds have money, thus, this starts at 3500$
Intel Core Ultra 9 275HX 2.1GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Ti 12GB GDDR7;
https://system76.com/laptops/serval-ws
Same CPU and GPU, as a gaming laptop, 2199
https://www.microcenter.com/product/691610/legion_pro_7_16ia...
It’s not like System 76 is developing special Nvidia drivers or anything.
Keep in mind most of these niche laptop brands, aside from Framework, just resell hardware. You definitely can get a better deal if you put in the work.
agloe_dreams
Not just 'way', These prices are downright absurd and anyone who buys one is either giving a donation or an idiot.
$2000 for the very cheapest first-gen Core ultra CPU is nuts. You can buy a used, faster XPS 15 OLED 4K for literally $1000 less.
Like, Dell sells refurbished the Precision 5560 with the 11850H, 4K OLED, same ram and storage amounts, and a bonus Nvidia dedicated GPU for $560.
Did I mention that the ram isn't soldered?
ar-nelson
I thought that sounded good, so I looked it up. I can find Dells with 1920x1080 screens for ~$560, but the 4K ones, even refurbished, are closer to $2,000. But maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place?
camgunz
Coreboot is amazing, more machines should have open firmware--especially those intended to run FOSS OSs.
negura
100% agreed. it upsets me when i see companies like framework advertising themselves front and centre as Linux-first, yet won't sponsor a coreboot port. starlabs, system76 and novacustom actually walk the walk
xvfLJfx9
Framework plans to eventually support coreboot, as far as I am aware. (Or open source the current one they purchased). It just wasn't the main priority. They focused on making a repairable laptops ecosystem first. Switching to different firmware later isn't ruled out.
negura
they originally announced their intention to open the firmware 4 years ago
https://community.frame.work/t/responded-coreboot-on-the-fra...
backscratches
Starlabs is at least as repairable as framework, older, and coreboot.
LorenDB
I really like the detachable webcam gimmick - I'm sure that, like all gimmicks, it could prove frustrating sometimes, but it's a novel way to have both a decent webcam and thin bezels without notches, nose-facing cameras, etc.
ulrikrasmussen
I like it both for the peace of mind that the webcam is off, but also because I anyway have a dedicated external webcam both at the office and at home, so I really don't need a webcam lens in the lid except for the rare occasions where I need to take a meeting on the go.
zx8080
Same-size cursor keys (with the whole line and without any distinction) is such an ill-design decision. Nice to show in the presentation slide deck, but hard to actually use blindly.
sho_hn
This is lovely. I'd love it if this or the Framework Pro also had OLED options, though.
My aging Thinkpad P1 (1st Gen) has a great LCD, but it's also the last non-OLED screen in my life, and I don't think I can buy another laptop without it. In fact it would be a purchase decision driver/upgrade incentive for me. This and longer battery life.
Even though I build lots of C++ code, I still don't think I need more than the Xeon in the P1, horse-power wise.
colordrops
For sure, once you go OLED you don't go back. It's like going back to a mouse with a ball.
volemo
You know, I’ve actually gone back to a mouse with a ball. And it’s gorgeous!
ragchronos
I mean you have those ergonomic Logitech trackballs that are praised by devs!
benterix
> 01. Removable Webcam With its easy-to-disconnect magnetic connector, you can simply unplug the webcam whenever you want to ensure that no one can access it.
What about the microphone though?
The camera issue has been solved years ago by a simple analog hack of physically obscuring its field of view, with some business units having a physical switch built-in.
The same is much more difficult for a microphone, hence the appeals of privacy-conscious folks about it, mostly unanswered.
rob74
I clicked on the link half expecting to see a scale model of the (in)famous Lockheed Starfighter (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104).
sillysaurusx
One of the best investments I’ve ever made was to get an 8TB drive for my laptop. Never having to worry about disk space again is so nice. Consider it if you’re in the market for a new laptop.
steve_adams_86
Does it ever worry you that all 8TB could fail in one place? Do you have redundant drives (like two 4TB or four 2TB drives)?
I'd be worried about having all of my storage in one place. I like to back up data to more than one place if it's important, and never have huge on-device storage because if something happens to damage it, I'm assuming it's game over for all on-device storage (rather than only part of it). I'd rather my storage was safe and cozy in some place far from where my laptops go.
But if you're not all that worried and happen to do data-intensive work or something, awesome, 8TB sounds like a dream.
mkl
Data only in one place is bad no matter how big the drive is. Sync it to a NAS, PC, online, external drive, other laptop, or multiple of those.
varispeed
I don't know. I had dozens and dozens NVMe drives and only one 8TB. Guess which one failed? The 8TB one. That hurt.
jmull
I've only been getting machines with 1TB or less.
(1) I only need local internal storage for apps, current data, and active projects.
(2) It helps me stay honest & organized about my backup and archive strategies.
puzzlingcaptcha
FWIW I have had a StarLite Mk IV for three years now and haven't run into a single issue with it (except maybe the speakers being quite poor).
Unfortunately the company stopped releasing firmware updates for it soon after they launched Mk V. I don't know if it can be still built from source for the older devices.
bwhmather
I'm also the happy owner of a StarLite Mk IV. The perfect travel laptop. Thin, light, fanless, excellent keyboard and touchpad, matt screen, rock solid chassis, good battery life. I'm dreading the day when it finally breaks as there's nothing comparable on the market today. I wish they could do another run.
Very different niche from the StarFighter but StarLabs make excellent machines.
puzzlingcaptcha
Their Horizon model is probably closer to a Mk IV successor than Mk V. I would consider it as an upgrade path.
mixmastamyk
Hmm, thought they ship firmware for all recent models at once, though might be mistaken. Are there any fw bugs?
puzzlingcaptcha
I suppose that depends on how recent is what you consider recent. I'd have hoped with the coreboot upstreaming effort they would keep official releases coming a bit longer.
You can see the last release for Starlite Mk IV is from 2024: https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?value=starlite
These seem to be the SKUs they are building roms for: https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/firmware/tree/capsules/roms
sschueller
Nice but Switzerland and the EU by law require a minimum of a 2 year warranty. You can't sell a device with less.
sspiff
To consumers. You can sell to businesses.
Toutouxc
They don't seem to be trying to stop me from placing an order as a consumer.
BrokenCogs
I've had a very poor experience with the starlabs starlite tablet. Touchscreen and various hardware issues that I received little help with from their customer support.
harel
I was minutes from ordering my 4th Thinkpad X1 when I found out about them. Although the Starfighter is a bit too big and heavy for me they also have the Horizon model which is exactly what I'm looking for - if only it came in 64GB ram option and a newer CPU (the former - not yet, the latter is coming soon). In any case, they made me decide to hold off and wait. If they do release a 64G Horizon model I'm all over it.
adrianwaj
I think it should have a removable/detachable screen that can still be on hinge if need be as many people won't even travel with it, and will put the screen on a stand - or it could have foldable support legs.
The screen and main unit could be purchased independently too. Another idea would be to have a second screen that can hang down from the first one for when it's on a desk stand.
As someone said elsewhere - no USB-A needed with USB docks via a single USB-C.
Another idea would be to have a hall effect keyboard - they are the best.
bhasi
The key on the top right corner of the keyboard being the poweroff button instead of the Delete key gets an instant NACK from me.
benoau
Jeez what an amazing month for premium Linux laptops.
Lord_Zero
What else came out?
agravier
Framework pro
ekianjo
Not out yet. On pre orders
fagnerbrack
I like to use laptop in the beach. No glare means I can see it even with the sun light reflecting?
ulrikrasmussen
If you want to use it on the beach you will probably need an e-ink display because no laptop screen can compete with the sun. But matte is still infinitely better than glossy for less than ideal conditions such as working on a train where there might be sunlight coming in from the side.
Glossy screens are, in my humble opinion, a stupid gimmick because they look a bit better at ideal viewing conditions. For mobile devices the viewing conditions are most often not ideal, so it really doesn't make any sense unless the screen has to be a touch screen. I have had one laptop with a glossy screen and I ended up putting a glare reducing sticker on it because the glare was intolerable.
lorenzohess
Based on my experience with the System 76 Lemur Pro coming from a Macbook Pro, matte helps a bit. You won't have mirror glare like on the Macbook, but the sun will still wash out the matte screen.
voidmain0001
The configuration with the AMD CPU is using the 8845HS which was released Dec-2023 whereas the configuration with the Intel CPU has the Ultra 9 285H which was released Jan-2025. Why such an old AMD CPU? The Intel has faster LPDDR5 RAM, 8400 MT/s vs 7400 MT/s.
culebron21
Finally someone made a laptop with PgUp/PgDn/Home/End column, like Toshiba! Thank you!
culebron21
...just noticed it's 16". Toshiba did the same on 14" laptops.
lordfrikk
Has the availability of Starlabs hardware gotten better? Back in August 2024 I ordered a Starbook and then cancelled the order 4 months later when the laptop was still not delivered and Framework started selling in my country.
kuon
I recently switched from Linux to freebsd on my work computer and things have been mostly working. With linux chroot I can use the few apps missing BSD port.
I did this because I manage a fleet of BSD based server (BSD runs zfs and bhyve with VM on it) and I wanted the same base system for me.
I wonder how BSD friendly those laptop are.
In any case I am so happy to see some open hardware solution.
NoSalt
One thing I have discovered about myself [fairly] recently, is that I want, at least, two buttons, preferably three, and a separate track pad. This entire giant surface for multiple mouse buttons and a track pad combined, sucks. Most times, I just use a wireless Logitech mouse with my laptops, but I am not always able to do that. And when I cannot, I am back to hating the monolithic, multi-function pad, button, thing.
hecifato
Whenever I see a Starlabs release I think about picking it up then I look at the price. When you're getting to the point where a MacBook is a better deal it's a tough sell, especially when your lower end CPU options are so weak.
mixmastamyk
CPUs have been fast enough for mainstream compute for a decade+. Here you are paying to support freedom, privacy, coreboot, and very high RAM prices, at low economies of scale.
utrack
3575EUR seems like a steep price for a znver4 processor from 2023 to be honest.
Yizahi
Looks amazing, it even has Ins key, as if they expect people to actually work on this laptop /s :) . But the price of 4200$ is out of reach for me unfortunately.
mixmastamyk
What? Hate the Insert key (break my editor button) to the point I often remap it rather that hit by mistake when missing delete. ;-)
Joe_Cool
If you use (n)vim it's a good key to have.
mixmastamyk
Don't those use the "i" key?
Joe_Cool
Yes, but "i" is not a toggle.
trashface
I happen to be looking around for a 15 or 16 inch laptop, but these look pretty unsuitable for me. Odd CPU choices, and no apparent way to configure one with 16GB ram in this time of AI-fueled cost crisis. All but the standard are way out of my budget range - especially considering none have a dGPU. Also for idiosyncratic reasons I need a numeric keypad.
marshray
There's no shortage of 16 inch laptops with numeric keypads.
First thing I thought when I saw the picture was "Yay, a 16 inch laptop with the keyboard and pad in the middle!"
neals
I've been working from a ARM windows laptop for a year now and have gotten so used to a full day of battery, I don't even bring a charger anymore. I would love a framwork or Starfigher laptop, but I don't feel like the batterylife on intel and amd is there yet?
rawoke083600
Looks nice ! :) I like the design and name
Not sure who the target market is.. but on the homepage it only lists the CPU's in the era of AI/Models etc I'd put the GPU and VRAM somewhere on mainpage as well.
Even when I view "Tech Specs" still don't see the VRAM ? Just some feedback.
chiph
Do these user-configurable laptops come with a mesh bag to hold their parts? Like the camera on the StarFighter, and the modules on a Framework. Would be a cool branding opportunity.
wg0
I already like it better than Framework with Framework having a better philosophy of reusability and upgradability. Basically I am undecided. Both are too good.
rawling
> 5 years of updates
Is this an improvement on how long whatever it's talking about usually gets updates for, or is putting a limit on it at all a bad sign? I've only seen this with regards to mobile phones before.
backscratches
There are no guarantees your laptop will ever get a single update (let alone 5 years) unless they state as much. Most do not state any guarantee or less than 5 years.
roadbar
Model F-104G? =) I love the specs and the design - worth a try for business use!
skiing_crawling
I noticed they offer all the storage upgrades at or below retail cost. Nice.
fabiensanglard
Opensource firmware?
Does it mean this machine has the potential of having amazing battery life since it can be fully programmed? I am talking as close to MacBook Pro level (not accounting for arm vs intel/amd difference).
mvkel
The Dell XPS and Framework laptops already far exceed MacBook Pro battery life.
seabrookmx
The Framework 13 absolutely does not touch the MacBook Pro battery life in any of its current configurations, though the upcoming 13 pro promises to.
I have a Ryzen 5 AI 340 powered machine and average about 6 hours. I might be able to stretch that to 7 if I dimmed the screen a bunch and only did light web browsing.
This is closer battery life to MacBook Neo, not an Air or Pro under the same workload.
sam_lowry_
O'rly? Also when suspended to RAM? Framework AMD versions specifically?
simonjgreen
The Intel 13th gen will draw ~1% per hour while suspended to RAM.
My findings on it: https://sjg.io/writing/suspend-battery-drain-framework-13-ub...
sam_lowry_
Thanks for the detailed write-up.
IIRC my Thinkpad T14 G2 has S3 and it draws 0.3% per hour, pretty much in line with what Macbooks draw when sleeping.
delamon
Another data point: AMD T14 G4 with s2idle draws about 0.4% per hour of sleep.
lbrito
What would be the advantages of this over a Framework 16?
mixmastamyk
More practical, better screen, coreboot, first class Linux support. Less modular if you are a gamer/ML fan however. This is closer to a big FW13, aka desktop replacement.
wald3n
So expensive with a one year limited warranty. Come on man :/
Ylpertnodi
Thanks to cookies and gdpr, warranties on electric items are two years in the eu.
walrus01
For the price I was expecting actual wifi 7 (802.11be standards compliant) and USB3.2 10 Gbps capability on the type A ports.
operatingthetan
It would have been better if they didn't make it look a little bit too inspired by the Macbook Pro.
bryanlarsen
There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad. A real Macbook copy would include Macbook misfeatures, like:
- control key in wrong place - camera notch - half sized arrow keys
operatingthetan
>There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad
No, every laptop does not look exactly the same and they are not all macbook clones.
ShinyLeftPad
It doesn't look exactly the same. Sure, if it had a tiny touchpad with separate buttons or missing indent so that it's inconvenient to open the lid or didn't have stereo speakers or was really thick then it would look even more different than an MBP... If one company nails some design elements before others, why should everyone who gets those elements too be blamed for copying it.
bryanlarsen
The ones that look more different are generally made of plastic and/or eschew minimalism.
minimalism as a design choice far predates Apple, and constrains design choices substantially.
ulrikrasmussen
It doesn't. It looks like a slick laptop, but it is as similar to Macbook Pro as it is to a modern Thinkpad. The hinge in particular stands out and looks like a Thinkpad hinge as opposed to the hidden hinge of a Macbook. Other than that, there is not much design freedom left when the whole industry has kinda agreed that a big trackpad and rounded corners is the way to go.
sho_hn
I think in reality it will look/feel a fair bit different due to the ceramic-coated material.
Asus has similar materials in recent models I believe; I rather like it.
wussboy
What a boutique criticism
dylan604
And what design would you rather them emulate?
jjtheblunt
why?
namar0x0309
I made it a rule of mine to only buy my next hardware upgrades from such companies. This is the future that leads to a human race that is knowledge focused. Closing off technology with contrived schematics and patents encourages the masses to stay ignorant.
More of this please.
rswail
An ISO keyboard with the big enter key is definitely a plus!
fragmede
No fingerprint sensor.
docmars
That keyboard layout is a deal breaker for me. Why do companies have to change things up all the time? Why can't they just go with T-shaped arrow keys and a standard layout?
It completely dwarfs the otherwise great hardware.
mixmastamyk
Are you referring to the UK layout? Or the keys on the side? It's all tradeoffs but full size cursor keys and a line of line/page keys are arguably as good as it gets.
docmars
Specifically the line/page keys. I guess I've gotten used to MacBooks for so many years that I'm fine with pressing a modifier key and the arrow keys to navigate that way.
I'd rather do that than accidentally keep pressing "Home" instead of Backspace.
With this, I'd have to look down at my keyboard all the time to make sure I'm not mistakenly pressing those keys, because the hand is used to "resetting" on the edges of the keyboard to get a feel for the keys I expect to find on the edges: Enter, Shift, Arrow Keys, etc.
It throws off the brain's muscle memory big time.
mixmastamyk
You'll probably get used to it in a week or so. I prefer separate keys however there's usually not enough room, so this is a good compromise.
pinchydev
looks exactly like my MBP M3 - and that's a compliment!
binary132
Every new $3000 computer I see just makes me glad I bought a Snapdragon X2 laptop.
Yizahi
Hi. Could you please describe your opinion on the compatibility and stability (especially everything wireless) of the system?
binary132
I’ll try to remember to leave a comment here once I have a chance to put it through its paces soon. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a little rough around the edges, but I think that they’ve had some time to iron things out with the first generation and I expect it to be pretty good on Windows based on numerous reviews. I’m mainly wondering how it will do with Gentoo.
SilentM68
Those are nice looking machines. I don't see any mention of high-end GPUs, though. Do you offer any models that include heavy-duty GPUs for the more usually beefier AI stuff?
iamcalledrob
Very happy to see a 4K display. Framework take note!
amne
that's actually one thing I don't like but they're essentially forcing you to go 4k for the 10khz pwm.
otherwise, why would you want a resolution you're going to scale to 150% or even 200% anyway just to be able to read it anywhere outside?
... and eating into your battery
iamcalledrob
4K is perfect because you can scale it to 200% and still have a lot of screen real-estate.
Personally, I'm highly allergic to fractional scaling. It's 200% or I'm not buying it!
mixmastamyk
16 is a desktop replacement size. And 120hz is great because it can play video/film natively.
Zababa
Sad for the processor, it has a "16-core Intel Ultra 9 285H" which is from what I understand intel 15th gen, while the 16th gen, "Panther Lake", seems to be the one giving battery life around as good as the M1 in the new Dell laptops.
Joe_Cool
You can also have an older Ryzen 7 8845HS according to the tech specs. Even though the overview page states it's a Ryzen 9. Weird.
ge96
nice screen size/small bezels
moron4hire
I had a Starbook for three years. It was constantly plauged with power issues. As long as I had it plugged in via the barrel connector, everything was fine. But if I tried to charge it over USB-C, it would often fail to boot, lock up, require hard power cycling, and still not come back stable. If I left it completely shut down for a week, the battery would be dead and I couldn't get it back until it had charged (with the barrel connector charger, it would not charge from dead in USB-C) for at least 10 minutes.
Everything else about the computer I loved, but the power issue often meant it was not available when I wanted it. I eventually sold it on eBay (with full disclosure of the issues).
aetherspawn
Any public reviews?
dark-star
What an unfortunate name, after a fighter aircraft that has been dubbed "widowmaker" because it crashed so often, and could only sold to various air forces around the world because Lockheed heavily bribed the decisionmakers
That being said, the laptop itself looks rather neat, especially the battery runtime
qiine
numpad where ?
ramesh31
They still make Intel laptops? Sounds awful. A 5 year old M1 Max would give this thing a run for its money.
Edit: it does https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5777vs4585/Intel-Ultra-...
jcmontx
x86 is dead to me
carlosjobim
Would it be possible to hackintosh such a device?
jamespo
Has almost everything I want, full size cursor + dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdown but fingerprint sensor would have been nice, although linux support for those is dodgy.
SilverElfin
They aren’t US based right? Does that mean tariffs for US shipping?
Are these a good pick for a non-programmer who is interested in Linux but intimidated by it?
ufmace
Looks like they're UK based. I don't know, but apparently tariffs etc are factored into the shipping fees shown on their site.
If you're not sure if you want to go Linux yet, it's probably best to try a live USB stick of a few distros on your existing hardware. Get a feel for what the interface is like, how things work, how it works on your hardware, etc, without actually changing anything. Seems like a better bet to me than buying all-new hardware.
jxcole
Have you tried it out?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/629632/can-you-boot-ubuntu-s...
SilentM68
You can also use Ventoy to boot the ISOs which is somewhat easier in my view.
SilverElfin
A long time ago. But I ran into all sorts of issues. It was a struggle getting things like Bluetooth or WiFi working. And I just couldn’t get myself to feeling like I could ‘trust it’. Like that I wouldn’t break it and somehow lose all my data in th process.
fragmede
That's a reasonable fear! But the solution to that is to set up backups, no matter what the operating system you're on.
kombine
As the other commenter said, evaluate a live usb with any distribution with KDE Plasma Desktop, for example Fedora, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or Endeavour OS (Arch Linux based). You can also try something like Fedora Kinoite or Bazzite, so called immutable distributions which make it really easy to use for non-technical people.
mixmastamyk
Additional tarrifs were mostly struck down by the courts, a few months ago.
d3Xt3r
Check out System76 and Framework, they're based in the US and ship Linux machines.
dainiusse
Is it a laptop?
varispeed
Performance yet only 64GB of RAM?
Seems late by several years.
If it had 256GB RAM or even better 512GB, I'd consider.
gverrilla
I don't like the name.
analog8374
does anybody do built-in trackballs anymore? I really like those.
seabass-labrax
Yes, the MNT Reform and Pocket Reform both have trackballs[1]. They're very different products from the StarFighter laptop though, in that they sacrifice a lot of potential processing power in exchange for a platform which is much more amenable to customization.
miek
Ive always wished for a UHK-style trackball in a laptop: https://uhk.io/product/trackball
aidenn0
Do you know what kind of bearings that has?
I must also mention that I'm happy to see the UHK has a ball-retention ring; this used to be normal for trackballs but companies moved away for it for some reason.
mnkv
you mean like the thinkpad trackpoint?
tempest_
I assume they mean an actual roller ball (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Contura )
It is still a crazy question though because if you seen most laptops in the last 15 years there is basically no room for them except on the large workstation thinkpads or large gaming laptops.
blacksmith_tb
Not the OP, but some older laptop designs had a small trackball where modern machines have a touchpad, e.g. the early PowerBooks[1]
uoaei
Tried and failed to beat Framework to market. Frankly I'm hopeful that Framework beats this offering out, though I'm happy for the competitive pressure.
backscratches
Starlabs is older than framework and their machines are *at least" as repairable. I have been using a really good one for 4 years or so. And their firmware is open source.
creshal
Oh look, another generic Macbook clone.
backscratches
Lol these are the most refined Linux flagship hardware manufacturers in the world. No clone.
creshal
If your definition of refinement is "looks like a Macbook", sure. Personally, if I wanted a laptop that looks like a Macbook, I'd buy a Macbook.
backscratches
No my definition is most Linux compatible, custom firmware and support. They make the only modern qubes certified machine which is a hardware compatibility nightmare. Look is afterthought
paulpauper
lol Up to
18 hrs
battery life
if you put it in sleep mode maybe. why do people keep lying about battery life?
bigyabai
A couple weeks ago, Framework livestreamed a rundown of their 13" laptop lasting over 20 hours on a charge. I can believe the 16" gets there too.
bryanlarsen
That was a Panther Lake based laptop. Lunar Lake laptops can also last well over 12 hours, even in Linux. This StarFighter offers neither Lunar Lake nor Panther Lake, so 18 hours is probably only under really ideal circumstances.
dylan604
Well, it's running Linux, so close the lid and turn off the screen. Then, SSH into it like a good Linux machine.
paulpauper
With wifi and usage? I have never gotten more than 3 hours with wifi and regular usage. Maybe this one is different.
seabrookmx
I reliably get 6 hours out of my Framework 13 with the Ryzen 5 340. And that's with multiple IDE's, 20 browser tabs, full screen brightness. I'm running the latest Fedora without any power saving tweaks.. just stock.
It's not MacBook good but it's much better than 3hrs :)
miek
Light usage on low brightness? Nice to know it will last for a long flight.
guywithahat
They lied about the horizon battery life as well, reviewers put it at ~3 hours down from I think an "estimated" 12. Really nice laptops, I might still get one, but this sort of lying irks me.
ekianjo
No cachyOS or Arch install options. Proposing Manjaro in 2026 is major clueless
dwighttherobot
I have no experience with cachyOS, so can't comment there, but I don't see the point in offering pre-installed Arch. I'd say most Arch users are fairly picky and opinionated about their setup, and would choose to reinstall anyway.
stonogo
Can't imagine how tough it must be to be someone who, when offered a choice of nine different operating system, chooses to whine about it
ilaksh
Says nothing about AI capability or even graphics. I am skeptical about the value.
cr125rider
This is satire, right?
ilaksh
No, AI capabilities of some sort are obviously important. But I know a lot of people don't appreciate that.
But you aren't seriously suggesting that graphics hardware is irrelevant are you?
whilenot-dev
The few things that make me agree with GP:
1. "AI" is a marketing term used by the likes of OpenAI/Anthropic/Google. LocalLLaMa communities prefer to use "LLM" or "model". So for a lot of people "AI" is just a service (see 4.)
2. "AI capability" is an irrelevant spec and marketing slug. The hardware specs will give you the needed infomation to consider a model[0][1].
3. If you'll want to run a model locally, you'd know that a midrange notebook isn't the device to look for. Instead, look at workstations with discrete graphic cards + lots of VRAM (24GB+), Strix Halo APUs or a MacBook with lots of RAM, or some dedicated workstations like the NVIDIA DGX Spark[2].
4. An inference engine can run anywhere, you can pick any LLM hosting service. LLM clients just expect an API endpoint anyway.
[1]: https://www.caniusellm.com/
[2]: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/workstations/dgx-spark...
mixmastamyk
Vast majority of folks are using from the cloud today. If you want to spend big on local ML there are other options. Maybe a future starfighter with panther lake and unified mem is in the cards, but not today.
seabrookmx
Off topic but I like your username! Ironically I have matching 2003 CR85 and CR250's but not the 125 :P
backscratches
Lmao what do you mean the specs are all there
orliesaurus
Can I run local LLM models on this? There's no reference to it in the marketing.
backscratches
You'll have to use your brain unfortunately to figure it out
orliesaurus
oh no /s
AngryData
I don't know how anybody can stand not having a numpad.
d3Xt3r
I never used it. Well, I lie, I did use it back in the day for playing some DOS games where you had to share your keyboard with your friend...
But all my keyboards have been TKL over the past 15+ years and I don't miss it. I don't know why anyone needs to use a numpad unless they're in a job where they work a lot with numbers. And if you're not in such a role, what is your hobby exactly that demands so much number punching?
dylan604
I bought a bluetooth 10-key. I use the home/end keys religiously when editing in an NLE, and it drove me crazy trying to be a road warrior without it. After having the external, I prefer it as it is full size instead of trying to squeeze it into the laptop frame size. So not having the numpad on the laptop is a-okay for me
CarVac
I do number entry with the number row. 8 fingers > 3 fingers.
wtallis
I only use a number pad for playing a few games, and for bulk data entry. Neither of those use cases are something I prefer using my laptop for, and even on my desktops they're rare enough that I'd much rather have the number pad separate and largely out of the way.
What do you use a number pad for often enough to not only see it as mandatory for you, but to leave you unable to imagine how anyone could live without it?
pmontra
I never use my numpad. I use the numbers in the top row of the keyboard.
I'd be super happy to yank my numpad out of my laptop, move the keyboard a little bit to the right and center align it with the center of the screen. My head would be centered with the middle of the screen too.
Unfortunately I had to settle with that keyboard because every other laptop was a worse tradeoff.
puzzlingcaptcha
I've learned to love numpad when I spent some time working in France. On AZERTY layouts you need to press SHIFT for each regular number.
K7PJP
I do not understand why a numpad is considered a necessity by some. I never used it when I had them. Do you work in data entry?
eviks
Because it's way more convenient to type numbers, and no, you don't need to work in data entry to enter data / appreciate this convenience
fodkodrasz
Numpad makes notebooks unnecessarily wide (I don't like widescreen, 4:3 was the best aspect ratio), but classical Thinkpad arrows and home key block layout is what I really miss (and Trackpoint with proper drivers and cursor kinematics as it were in linux circa 2005)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/IBM_Thin...
(though I prefer ISO enter, eg. Hungarian, German or Swedish layout)
eviks
Easy - by moving numpad to your main keyboard with a modifier so you don't need to move your hand just to type numbers
pmontra
Ah yes, I remember those keyboards. Maybe in the 90s?
ulrikrasmussen
I have just configured my keyboard to give me a numpad on UIOJKLM,. if I hold down ';' with my pinky and don't let go immediately.
eviks
With the flexibility of software - also in the 20s
miek
For serious work, I'm docked and using a large monitor, split keyboard, etc. Many people make concessions when on a laptop.
pch00
Absolutely hate numberpads on laptops - if you're sitting with the laptop directly in front of you it means your arms and hands are slightly offset to the left for normal typing.
frankmatranga
What do you use yours for? All I’ve ever missed it for was the default Blender keybinds for the camera perspective
harel
I sit...
fishgoesblub
Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years. Put this in a room with a few other laptops and it'd be hard to pick it out from the crowd. The only thing it has going for it are the raw specs, but it's eventually marred by the price for what is a poor typing and trackpad experience.
happymellon
> Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years.
I wasn't aware that generic laptops had moved to haptic touchpads and up-firing speakers over ten years ago...
fishgoesblub
It is the common buttonless style that is annoying to use compared to something with actual mouse buttons like an older Thinkpad.
ghostpepper
They claim it has a haptic trackpad, so I don't think that's what most manufacturers use.
backscratches
The hardware is designed in house and is the only trackpad that approaches macbook levels
guywithahat
Yeah starlabs uses a lot of glass trackpads in their products and are known for good builds; certainly this will be better than a thinkpad or something. The common complaints for their laptops are usually battery life (I know the horizon battery life was famously abysmal, roughly 3 hours of use), although I'm not sure how long this battery will last.
Eric_WVGG
Looks sick.
I think we're at the point where the inclusion of USB-A is a demerit.
Also the x86 processor… that's like two toes in the past… still looks like a heck of a machine. I’d take this over a Framework any day.
juleiie
[flagged]
dang
Could you please stop posting flamebait comments? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
juleiie
Look, I am not “flamebaiting” or whatever.
It’s just that I never hesitate to voice my opinions even if they may seem very assertive.
For me the point of social media is to be 100% myself and always say what rings true to me. I won’t modify my opinions just because they go against the consensus.
It’s an art as much as it is communication and every single word is necessary to properly express my inner self in a self contained one comment exhibition. The only rule is to really be 100% aligned to your core, pure, being when crafting these small literary wonders that best translate the expression of the soul.
Pure individualism.
We do not often have a chance to be this honest in real life for various reasons. I value this honesty, look for it on the Internet and thus I also try to be 100% honest in return according to the rule “be what you want to see in the world”.
dang
I believe you that you're not intending to post flamebait, but the way that you're addressing others (e.g. "You Linux freaks", and similar swipes you've been posting elsewhere) is guaranteed to have such effects on the threads, and we have to moderate by effects, not intent.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
juleiie
I guess it’s pointless to try to introduce some liveliness to this boring corporate site. Fine, I will not bother you anymore.
wmedrano
I tried going from a budget Lenovo Linux to a Macbook Pro after graduating from university. The hardware was solid, but it is probably my most disappointing purchase.
Right now, I'm extremely satisfied with my workhorse Linux desktop and less so satisfied with my Linux laptop battery life, but I mostly use desktop anyways.
cevn
I respectfully decline, I had macbook Pro m1 or 2 and the screen went black after 1 year and was quoted 1k to fix it. I spent that 1k on a linux laptop instead and that's been going strong for 3 years.
amarant
>You Linux freaks should just buy a MacBook Pro. It’s number one for a reason
Yes and that reason is marketing.
weird-eye-issue
I haven't had an Apple product in a decade but the shear efficiency of their CPUs is pretty impressive. Been thinking about picking up a MacBook Pro or Air (which doesn't even have fans) for travel because I'm getting really tired of lugging around my relatively heavy and inefficient Windows laptop
ArmadilloGang
As mundane and common as the information I’m about to share may be, it’s the reality of MacBook ownership for many - dare I say most?
I don’t buy new MacBooks. I get them refurbished from MicroCenter, Apple, or elsewhere.
In 2024, I picked up a 2021-released 14” M1 Max MacBook Pro w/ 2 TB and 64 GB for $1800 from Microcenter. Because Apple is so hostile to repairs, I have been paying for AppleCare+ and will continue for some time. But I don’t see myself truly needing to replace this machine for another 2-3 years. It’s my daily driver for BBedit, some IDEs, music apps, Firefox with dozens of tabs, Mail, Messages, iTerm2 with half a dozen tmux sessions.
True - my computing needs are not demanding. But for those of us who offload commuting to remote servers and mostly use thin clients, the computer is a joy to use.
I’ve been dabbling in Ableton Live Suite 12 Lite, which came with my Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 MKII midi keyboard, and this machine never breaks a sweat.
The M-series are seriously as close to BIFL as a consumer laptop can be.
Meanwhile, my wife’s daily driver is a 2013 13” MacBook Air w/ 128 GB SSD and 8 GB RAM. And an Intel i7 from that era. I won’t defend this though. She’s insane, and I don’t know how she lives with herself. I purchased it used from a Craigslist seller to be my daily driver 14 years ago, and it lasted until I upgraded to a 2020 M1 MacBook Air base model, which I later donated to a friend in need.
drnick1
> You Linux freaks should just buy a MacBook Pro.
Absolutely not. I want to be in full control of my machine, which means a FOSS operating system, and ideally FOSS firmware too. When Apple will request age verification, you will have no alternative but compliance with Apple's machines.
SoftTalker
Dell laptops have always worked great with Linux IME. Maybe double-check WiFi support before you pull the trigger but I've never had an issue personally.
vluft
hey is there an option to get an OS without ads (oh sorry "promotions") included?
gopher2000
Yeah it's wild to me that they'd consider going with some first gen startup solution for what is ultimately their most important professional device. And it's starting at $2k so it's not like it's insanely cheap either.
14113
Star Labs have delivered a number of other high quality linux laptops - I even used one as my daily work driver for a few years at a previous job. They're not a startup.
gopher2000
Ah that's different then. I'm wrong.
Oh, is this actually out now? If so, great, but I took a quick look and didn't spot any third party review yet. For those interested in this laptop, personally I'd still wait for some reviews from some real world people.
Some history on this laptop:
- The StarFighter 16 was originally announced back in November 2022 with an original delivery timeline of 3-4 months: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/yjuahx/star_...
- Here's a 500-comment HN thread from Feb 2023 about it (3-4 months later) now with an additional 4-5 month lead time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759507
- The latest production updates only go back to July 31 2025 - they mention a 3-5 month timeline from January 2025 (seeing a pattern?): https://starlabs.kb.help/starfighter-production-updates/
There's an "Unboxing" video from Star Labs on the StarFighter from January 22, 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjYJS5AJZpE
So, 3.5 years later, the chassis is still neat, and good on them for plugging away I guess, but for anyone that actually needs a new computer, there's no shortage of higher-end Linux-centric laptops with a better shipping track record (Framework, Tuxedo Computers, Slimbook, etc).