Air Conditioning Is Not a Luxury, It Is a Necessity
Comments
deanc
fnordsensei
While I hear you, I think AC is better centralized for the building, along with heat and water.
Yes, there are numerous reasons why this is harder to do than just doing it ad-hoc per apartment, but if we’re to see it as infrastructure, it should receive the same level of consideration as other utilities.
OptionOfT
The problem with shared is the issue of shared cost. How do you determine how much a user consumes?
There is also the issue of upgrading the shared infrastructure. Because of the size it's a lot more expensive to replace, so that is postponed for much longer because now everybody needs to pitch in.
deanc
Agreed, new builds should be mandatory, but this is not easy to retrofit to existing apartment buildings in a country where labour and parts are notoriously expensive and have to be split with the residents.
margor
For most of the buildings from communism era - all the utilities run through the apartments anyway and there is absolutely no place or way to retrofit these utilities without extensively either re-doing it from scratch, or trying to somehow retrofit it on the outside.
All of these options are a non-starter considering basic AC starts from $500. Why should anyone invest more than that?
numpad0
Permissions and structural concerns aside, you only need one 65mm/2.5" hole in the wall to run the high/low pressure gas lines, a drain hose, and a power cable, plus couple more non-penetrating drill holes on the wall to mount the inside and outside units. You'll need a hole saw attachment on a drill, a vacuum pump to thoroughly dry out the system, and bits of plastic putty to fill the hole against intrusion. It's a less than 5 man-hour job.
Markoff
you don't really need drain hose for outside multisplit unit, my AC drain hoses from all indoor units are connected to my WC tank, I used previously pumps to push the water to the roof, but they were not reliable and once after thunderstorm they died when I finally went for passive solution, should have done it from the beginning)
xattt
Many communist-era buildings had a service shaft the width of the back wall of the toilet closet (yes, bathroom and toilet are separate rooms). This was hidden from everyday view with large cabinet doors.
A national-scale project can likely package cooling for these shafts, possibly emanating from rooftop units.
spankibalt
> We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building.
Same for Germany, at least in many places. And if your building gets reclassified as being under Denkmalschutz (cultural heritage management) you've won in the Lottery of Pain.
deanc
Wasn't it the case in Germany it's only fixed installations? Meaning you could put the Midea split system there? This'd be a big no-no in Finland.
anilakar
> ensure consistent placement of condensers
You can install one on the balcony below the railing level.
The housing company is responsible for the exterior surfaces and thus also responsible for whatever happens to fall on bystanders when it will inevitably happen.
AC installers are also notoriously bad at following placement guidelines.
soco
I've had one placed like this in the balcony of a XVth century palazzo turned museum plus hotel, straight in the historical heart of Verona. If they can do it, everybody can do it as well.
margor
Seems like Poland and Finland might have something in common then. It's exactly the same here and exactly senseless.
matt-p
You say stupid, but I actually would find it sad to see beautiful buildings that are in many cases hundreds of years old defaced with loads of small condensers bolted on to the face.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't have A/C but rather all flats use one system with a large roof condenser, or where that is not possible district cooling or ground source.
deanc
I'm not talking about historic buildings that are hundreds of years old. I live in Finland - we don't have many of these. Almost all apartments are built after the 60s outside the downtown and look like concrete boxes.
soco
You'd be surprised (I certainly am) how fond can some people be of concrete box architecture - hint Le Corbusier.
deanc
Take a look around [1]. This is what every neighbourhood built looks like now.
SuperSixFour
The amount of engineering that goes into a system like this makes it impossible to retrofit into an existing structure.
titzer
Is it really so hard to put a small fence around it to hide the ugly?
eemil
Doesn't matter what it looks like, problem is it changes the facade. For that you need to submit some paperwork and get it approved.
You can actually install a heat pump in most apartment buildings, as long as it's on the balcony and not visible from the street (=below waist-level). Main reason you wouldn't, is condensate output which has to be piped indoors or into a heated drain during the winter. Or you just pipe it into your balcony's rainwater drain and accept that you can't use the heatpump below 0C.
raincom
Fencing AC units is a very bad idea, as they just cause air flow problems. After all, air and refrigerant circuit exchange heat.
titzer
Obviously, people thought about this, and there are lots of fence designs that admit plenty of airflow and lots of products ready-made for this already.
raincom
Service technicians hate fences unless they are easy to remove during a service call. Honestly, esthetics is not as much concerning as the noise from compressor and condenser fan. I stayed in an AirBnb, where the outdoor unit next to the bed room, and I couldn't sleep.
titzer
Ok, you're clearly trolling it this point. Fences can open.
margor
Sometimes it's not about the fence, it's about exerting power. Put people in charge of the decision that shouldn't be there, and you're in world of pain.
deanc
Of course not, there are numerous ways to make things look nicer.
kwarcode
Flowers bad, planks good?
koalalimpo
I think you misunderstand what isolation does. It will also keep the heat out. Having window awnings to block sunlight from directly warming up the room will go a long way.
unknownfuture
Yes and no.
The problem is if you can't get the home cooled off, then heat that does build up can't escape.
In western Canada until recently we got away with very good insulation coupled with opening windows at night as daytime-vs-nighttime temperatures could swing as much as 15C.
But as both daytime and nighttime temperatures increase, or in more humid climates where the temperature doesn't drop enough, that's no longer effective.
The net result is the home just gets hot and stays hot.
soco
Now here is exactly one place where the regulation can hit hard: awnings are maybe not allowed because the house wasn't designed with them. Possible to get the new design approved? For sure. Simple? Ha.
crossroadsguy
> I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony
In medieval times, not after, I hope.
the_real_cher
I could see this being a good policy for unsightly detrius or debris but they've taken it way too far.
Markoff
if you have balcony you could hide multisplit unit under railing
if you don't want permanent installation there are not basically mobile split units like Midea Portasplit, it's basically same thing you would install on the wall, but mobile on the wheels (personally I have regular AC (Toshiba) and my multisplit unit is on the flat roof invisible from the street, this year neighbor floor below me installed his unit on the roof as well, we are the only 2 apartments in two units with 40 apartments in total with AC, so much for Prague AC statistics, though honestly even under the roof in 35C+ temperatures it was not that bad prior turning on the AC)
michelsedgh
wow such beautiful industrial cement buildings how can someone put flowers and destroy the beauty of cement?
ricardobayes
I tend to stay away from topics like this which generalize and basically tell a whole continent they are living their lives "wrongly".
But I have to say, AC is not "banned" anywhere in Europe, apart from certain cantons of Switzerland. In Germany you have a right to AC actually, if your community votes to "veto" the installation a court can overturn that.
kleiba2
> But I have to say, AC is not "banned" anywhere in Europe
Exactly, the whole premise of the article is a bit of a strawman. In fact, where I live, the demand for AC installation is so high that you have to wait months for a company to install a unit for you.
These extreme heat waves are a fairly new phenomenon, summers in central Europe just didn't use to get so hot for such a long stretch of time even a few decades ago. Now that they've become the way they are, people are doing what? Correct, installing AC units. Imagine that.
But let's not forget that energy is also on average a lot more expensive in Europe than in the US. The cost plus environmental concerns, which seem to fair less high in the public conscience on the other side of the Atlantic, have also been reasons why people were not keen on AC units in the past.
throwaway473825
> But let's not forget that energy is also on average a lot more expensive in Europe than in the US. The cost plus environmental concerns, which seem to fair less high in the public conscience on the other side of the Atlantic, have also been reasons why people were not keen on AC units in the past.
The price of energy in Europe is largely determined by taxes and policy costs. Gas is mostly unencumbered. Electricity could be as well. It's a political choice to make electricity expensive.
Furthermore, given that many Europeans couldn't care less about the negative externalities of gas heating, it's very hard to argue that this is a major concern for AC, especially when AC is already mainstream in cars.
danielvaughn
To be fair, the article doesn't say that AC is banned - it mostly focuses on the HOA-style local ordinances and permits that discourage people from using AC.
dguest
Brought to you by an American libertarian think tank [1], no less.
jjgreen
Today seems to be international AC shilling day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49463831
chrystalkey
In what way?
cholantesh
"HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute with major support from the John Templeton Foundation and the Searle Freedom Trust, as well as additional funding from the B & E Collins Foundation, and William H. Donner Foundation." ~ https://humanprogress.org/about/
matt-p
It’s not banned, but getting permission to install the outside unit is essentially “hard” in some parts of Europe.
In England, if you own a house, you generally have permitted development rights to install one, subject to some fairly common-sense rules. If you live in a flat, though, it’s a very different story: you will need planning permission *as well as* freeholder consent, and the process generally involves engineering/structural/architect drawings and freehold-consent paperwork. The freeholder can also charge you their legal and administration costs, even if they ultimately reject the application. Essentially it's >5K of paperwork which might be wasted if it's rejected even just to install a single 5KW split.
So in the hottest parts of London and other major cities, where a large proportion of people live in flats, installing AC can be very difficult in practice. In the cooler commuter towns, where houses are much more common, it’s considerably easier.
Why can't they build it into new flat blocks/houses? Nothing outright prevents it but everyone does their best to discourage it. The London Plan, for example, uses a “cooling hierarchy” which 'seeks to reduce any potential overheating and also the need to cool a building through active cooling measures' so good luck getting planning for it.
kwarcode
> In the UK
You mean "In England".
matt-p
I mean yes, true, thank you - fixed. Though I honestly thought permitted development existed for them in scotland and stuff too.
kwarcode
Actually there is permitted development in Scotland but flats aren't excluded. There's no "Part P" either so an AC could be DIY with no notification or fees.
Yizahi
I also find deeply and even extremely ironic, that the same greenwashing radicals who bash ACs in Europe are then supporting "heat pumps" as a modern and efficient heating device. There are even programs labelled as Eco or green or whatever the jargon of the day is, to subsidize or finance heat pumps.
People are seemingly unaware that heat pumps are just an AC with a tiny additional valve in the pipes :) .
maybewhenthesun
Nothing ironic about that. Using an airco to cool a house is often (not always) a luxury that humans did without for centuries. So people are used to seeing cooling as luxury. Without heating you die.
A heatpump is more energy efficient than most other forms of heating. A heatpump is not always the most efficient way to cool a house.
seanmcdirmid
Heat pumps are just ACs with a lot more energy efficiency. How does that make people hypocrites?
numpad0
No, heat pumps and ACs are exactly the same device. They add a button to the remote and series of valves in the machine to switch flow of refrigerant forward and reverse, and call it "heat pumps" for upsell. All air conditioners are technically heat pumps.
raincom
They just buy slogans from those who espouse efficiency.
In a traditional AC unit, heat is produced by either electric strips or by a gas burner, no refrigeration circuit is involved in the heating cycle. So, just a blower motor runs, compressor (and condenser fan) never runs in the heating cycle.
In heat pumps, refrigeration circuit does both heating and cooling. So, compressor works in both cycles.
sig-11
They are. They're also heating indoors up to 4x more efficiently than the best alternative. Nobody is opposing AC cooling for efficiency.
The resistence to cooling with AC comes from way before HP became popular and remains, somehow. Part of it is because it's perceived as a luxury (while heating is not), partly because being relatively uncommon until recently its surprising for some people and therefore the perceived cause of illnesses and malaise.
It'll go away. Because it's really vitally important, and because air/air HPs are perfect trojan horses to normalize AC cooling.
.. That being said, I had to call 3 companies in Germany before I even found one willing to sell me a air/air HP. And the cooling function has to be carefully ignored if you want it subsidized.
UncleMeat
The "get a heat pump" narrative is just saying that heat pumps are better than gas heating or electric resistive heating. It is not hypocritical to say "people who already have a furnace and an AC should get a heat pump" while also saying "people who don't have an AC should consider continuing to not have AC."
mr_mitm
> Germany has reported more than 5,000 excess deaths this year.
We're up to more than 15,000: https://www.rki.de/DE/Themen/Gesundheit-und-Gesellschaft/Ges...
freetime2
While at an outdoor event this year on a very hot day early in the season - before my body had time to adapt to the summer heat - I got a warning from my Apple Watch that my heart was elevated even though I didn’t appear to be moving. My heart was up over 120 BPM just standing around.
I went to my car, turned on the AC, and drank some water. My heart rate went back to normal, but it was pretty unnerving.
The scarier thing was this was a youth sports tournament. These kids are playing all-day tournaments in 33C+ heat (and sometimes 36C+) for a solid two months of the year. While they may cope with the heat better than I do, I worry it’s only a matter of time before tragedy strikes.
That being said, this year I am making an effort to rely less on AC and do some moderate exercise in the heat to increase my tolerance.
t_mahmood
Multiple kids died in my country forced by the teacher to play soccer during a heatwave. This really should not be allowed.
elil17
Cooling technologies are a necessity and air conditioning is one of many possible options.
Europe north of France is substantially cooler than much of the US, even on the hottest days. Many homes could get by on ceiling fans, but they are very uncommon here.
roelschroeven
A couple of years ago that would have been correct, but circumstances have changed.
We've had a series of heat waves this summer, and temperatures have gotten very high inside. Much depends on the location of course, and the type of building, and stuff like that, but the fact is that in Belgium alone thousands of people have died because of the heat. Thousands of people that would still be with us if they would have had adequate cooling.
When it's close to 40 °C in your home, a ceiling fan is not going to make a meaningful difference.
And we need to keep in mind that summers are in all likelihood going to get hotter and hotter.
ElectricalUnion
Around and above 40°C, fans _are_ worse that useless - they may actively be killing you instead.
> Use electric fans only when temperatures are below 40˚C / 104˚F. In temperatures above 40˚C / 104˚F, fans will heat the body.
- https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/climate-cha...
elil17
How is the inside of your home getting to 40 in Belgium? Our hottest recorded air temperature was 36 this year.
There were many excess deaths, but there was also a shortage of fans here. Good fans could have also saved their lives.
petu
Air temp is measured in the shade, sun hitting windows/interior floors would take you past that.
IR blocking film/tint on outside works great if you can't get windows shaded.
anal_reactor
I live in the Netherlands. My apartment has two floors. The upper floor is basically a greenhouse, so 40C is absolutely normal if I close the windows. During the summer I always keep at least one window open, which cools down the house to around 30-35C. This sucks during summer but during winter it's a blessing because I can have 30C on a sunny day even if it's 0C outside. The only drawback is that the windows are very old so in winter that heat escapes immediately once the sun is gone. HOA has been planning window replacement for years already.
The lower floor has windows facing north so it's always much cooler there. I've never seen it reach more than 30C, which was in the middle of a heatwave, usually it keeps 25C during summer.
elil17
> During the summer I always keep at least one window open, which cools down the house to around 30-35C.
Yeah this is exactly my point. If your house is so poorly insulated that your internal temperatures go above the ambient temperature, you can open a window.
iso1631
> When it's close to 40 °C in your home, a ceiling fan is not going to make a meaningful difference.
Hottest the hottest south facing room in my house got in the UK this year was 31.8C on the 13th August.
The loft got upto 43C, but that's what insulation is for.
That said, you're right, things are changing. I'm looking at getting AC installed this winter (no way I was paying summer prices).
Moldoteck
During recent heatwaves ceiling fans will still not help you. They'll help with ac efficiency but you'll still feel miserable
pdhborges
You can use your AC as a fan when it is not too bad.
elil17
If you think that then you've never used a ceiling fan before - they are substantially more powerful than the air blowing out of your AC.
pdhborges
This was an half usefull joke. I can still make it with the exterior unit off for an extra 1 or 2 degrees with just the interior unit blowing during the day and the use the AC to cool during the night when it is more efficient.
In any case where I live fans are not a meaningfull stopgap measure.
numpad0
Forced air cooling require air to be colder than the heatsink surface and evaporative cooling require relative humidity to be less than 100%.
I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is, but we're already at point where there are times and places on Earth where one can construct a primal instinctive understanding of that by simply walking out of an air conditioned room(to which you SHOULD return within half an hour and MUST within an hour). "Just get fans bro" is tone deaf.
elil17
> I don't know how bad the situation in Europe is
Yeah there are those places, and northern Europe is not one of them!
numpad0
I mean, those places didn't have air conditioning 50-100 years ago and did fine, now air conditioning is life saving devices there. Global warming/climate change is real.
The WHO guide others are posting says fans only work under 40C, but that's the absolute maximum. There's no other option than resorting to devices based on refrigeration cycle when people are already dying("estimated through excess mortality" or however you dress it up), beyond being useless(human cognitive performance significantly degrade at above 28C).
The upper bound of 40C quoted in other comments is also just absolute maximum temperature - it's just saying that there's no way fans do anything if temperature of air and body are actually equal. The practical upper bound is lower than that(humidity and metabolism dependent, I guess).
boxed
I live in Sweden. You are incorrect. Having your home basically unlivable a few weeks every year is not ok, and ground heat exchange pumps that provide cooling are energetically basically free, so just do it.
elil17
I think you underestimate how powerful ceiling fans can be. The highest temperature in Sweden this year was only 36, you would be absolutely fine with a ceiling fan unless you wanted to exercise.
That said, if you are able to get a ground source heat pump, that's awesome, but it's something like 10x to 20x the price of even a really good ceiling fan.
lstodd
Ceiling (or for that matter any) fans work on your own evaporation. So unless you accept unacceptable levels of humidity or acclimatized to much hotter climate than Sweden and are there for a short time they are not a solution.
Ground source is overhyped and overpriced. District heating and air-exchange AC is still the winning solution.
elil17
Unacceptable levels of humidity? You can just open your window when the sun goes down to vent off the heat and humidity that built up during the day.
lstodd
haha. no.
try opening your window in +15C high humidity and then sleep.
I assure you, sleeping in a 0-5C sleeping bag on the nearby sea shore would be a more acceptable experience.
You just never lived there, yes?
elil17
Perhaps 15C is a typo? That is perfectly comfortable even at 100% RH + no air movement.
lstodd
nope, no typo. 15C+100RH+no convection = you just die in a few hours.
bcjdjsndon
I'm sorry but do you live in a tiny apartment or something? If you find the heat in scanda fucking navia too much, i think the problem might be you
danek_szy
What technology are these heat pumps using that make them "energetically basically free"?
ane
They have very good thermal coeffiency: ground source heat pumps will typically generate 3-6kWh of thermal energy from 1kWh of electricity. By reversing the flow you can also use ground source heat pumps for cooling as well.
danek_szy
Doesn't sound like "basically free" to me... It still uses electricity, which doesn't help with climate change (even if it mostly comes from renewables).
D-Machine
Hard to see how you can read what GP said as anything other than "basically free", and failing to quantify, like you are doing here, and just categorically calling all electricity use bad is not coherent or helpful either.
iso1631
Install 8kWp of solar panel on your roof (£5k), add a battery (£3k) and AC (£3k)
Charge the battery from the solar and it powers the AC in the evening.
You'll generate more than enough during the day to run AC and fill the battery to run it overnight.
Still using grid sources in winter, but you aren't using the AC. Although you might find air-air AC in heat mode is better than your gas boiler.
ux266478
More or less the only people who can do that in Europe are rich people with detached homes in the suburbs, which is a vanishingly small minority. European governments could do a lot more to invest in photovoltaics, but it's a bit complicated with how cramped the continent is.
You can replace farmland, but that seems like a really bad idea with Globalism's decline. Who knows what's going to happen to the food supply chain over the next 30 years. The only other option is attaching them to the exterior of historic buildings, and heaven forbid! Think about the character of the neighborhood!
iso1631
Plenty of semis and terraces have solar. Including the semis I can see out the window right now.
In the UK Semi, Terrace and Detached is about 75% of households and 80% of people.
If you look only at owners it's about 90% of households (and even higher for population)
And anyone who owns a home is rich. If you can afford 300k for a house you can afford 15k on reducing your electric bill.
Now rental of course is a separate matter, and the real problem.
As housing is so constrained landlords can extract all the money from tenants regardless of the quality, but even if it isn't, renters tend not to value things like solar or aircon. You can spend £10k adding solar to a house, but you probably aren't going to get enough from extra rent to offset the cost of installing it.
In the US a property owner has to provide AC because renters will expect it, same as you have to provide a washing machine connection in a rented place. This is a mindset thing which can't be changed.
In other European countries, but its not changing. Among owner-occupiers its France 80% houses, Germany and Austria 70%.
However the rental issue is far more in those countries, where nearly half the country live in rental. Things like balcony solar work well there, and they can power a portable AC.
sampo
Swedish electricity generation is 99% low-carbon sources.
boxed
Normally with ground heat exchange you cool down the hole so the system becomes less efficient over time. With cooling of your house that extra heat goes down the hole again. That ends up being almost free over the lifetime of the entire system.
fhackenberger
Run on solar (sun usually shines when it's hot) and use geothermic energy. The ground below your house is significantly cooler than the surrounding air.
I'd still favour the fan, I've lived in India for longer periods with consistently around 32-36 C and a fan is perfectly enough after a little while of adapting.
bewareofscams
>Many homes could get by on ceiling fans
Tell me you're German without telling me you're German
elil17
I'm from the US, although I live in Europe.
Most Germans don't own ceiling fans, which is the problem.
Arodex
Ceiling fans are extremely efficient, and they also improve enormously the efficiency of AC - by reducing by several degrees the amount of cooling to reach a comfortable level.
Ceiling fans should be installed before any AC.
If you are not convinced, there is a one-hour video by Technology Connections on YouTube that will argue the point more in-depth that anything I could write here.
bewareofscams
I'll check it out
bob1029
> This ailment is mysteriously absent from the United States, where indoor temperatures are often kept at around 75 degrees even when it’s 100 degrees outside
If having a high temperature delta was a concern everyone in Texas would be dead by now.
I set my thermostat to 65F in August. My house is at 67F right now and it's 81F outside (at 7AM). We're still catching up from yesterday. I don't see the point in allowing the condensing unit to shut off when it's this hot and humid out. You are just giving the angry super Mario sun a head start when you let it turn off in the morning. The temperature in my house will still rise to 74-75F with this unit running non stop. The forecast for today is approximately 100F.
At some point, the cost of electricity becomes constant (100% duty cycle). You can't run the air conditioner more than all the time. It makes the equipment last a lot longer when it's not being cycled every 10-15 minutes. It can be cheaper to just keep things brutally cold given the relatively affordable electric rates. $300 capacitor replacement can buy a lot of kilowatt hours in the ercot and entergy markets. Short cycling a compressor with high pressure and you could be replacing one every other year.
If any of this sounds offensive, I would invite the offended party to join me for lunch in downtown Houston or Galveston sometime this week.
iso1631
> I set my thermostat to 65F in August.
Ouch, that's far too cold for me in the UK. I have the house at 20C during the day (68F), and only drop to 18C (64F) at night.
When I had poor insulation that meant heating was regularly on 8 months a year, although it's on less now I live in a well insulated house.
bob1029
The point is that 65F is an unattainable temperature which results in the unit never shutting off. My pathetic 3-ton system cannot actually reach set point when the delta is 35+ degrees.
krunck
What kind of insulation does your home have?
krunck
Any discussion about AC and heatwaves needs to involve the use of web-bulb temperature(which is what the "heat index" comes from), not regular temperature.
the_mitsuhiko
> Several countries require AC installation to be approved by the equivalent of a homeowners association or impose noise ordinances that increase compliance costs and paperwork.
This is not unique to ACs. Anything on the outside of a building requires your co-owners to agree.
eloisant
That's where the image of AC in general matters. It needs to be seen as a life saving tech just like heating, not a luxury item for rich people.
If it was just a matter of red tape it would be fine, but in France people would fight you on AC because it's ugly/noisy/warms up the street.
So you can get it rejected by people who live in a flat where heat is not as much of a problem as your (ground floor vs higher floor, window orientation) or by landlords who don't even live in the building.
nextaccountic
> co-owners
HOAs don't make neighbors co-owners of your own property, do they?
Anyway HOA is something that shouldn't even exist. Or at least not with power to prevent people from having air conditioning in their home.
molf
> HOAs don't make neighbors co-owners of your own property, do they?
Home-owner associations in Europe are frequently set up for apartment buildings, in which case, yes, the roof, foundation, hallways, stairwells, main piping, electricity, etc are all legally co-owned. Primary purpose of HOAs is to save for & plan long-term maintenance on the entire building.
HOAs for neighbourhoods, or blocks with single-family homes or terraced houses are pretty rare in Europe.
soco
What will hit you before that here in Switzerland is the local authorities which have in front of their eyes a certain plan for your building, and anything not on the plan (in this case the AC unit) will need a permit. It's not an easy task, I would say impossible actually, to get such a permit, unless you find a way to redesign the whole facade in a acceptable way (units poking out doesn't count as acceptable).
raverbashing
Other countries outside of the US have different rules regarding multi-logement buildings and how they are organized
Not everything is a HOA
spwa4
Multi-logement buildings are not really the issue here. In the US (and outside, but less commonly, but e.g. France has them in the Alps, for the same reason) there are communities with only freestanding houses that privately own the infrastructure serving a number of houses, if I may be blunt: to make things cheaper for local councils and get housing approved, everything from roads to sewer lines.
They force homeowners to decide together (and pay for) everything from road maintenance to what noise levels are allowed.
Another issue they cause is that, of course, the homeowners living there do not just use HOAs to override the wishes of individuals, but also feel disinclined to let the local authorities ... and the locals ... operate as normal there, given that they pay for everything, sometimes literally including the roads in the area around them. These communities may have banks, parks, even beaches, and there are conflicts about who gets to go there, given the local homeowners pay for maintenance. For example, given they clean up left-behind garbage, do people from the nearby town get to play there ... and leave behind more garbage?
The root of the problem is that more housing is no longer a net positive for many communities in a great many places. The increase in taxation income does not justify the extra infrastructure in many places. This means local authorities refuse building projects unless they pay for their own infrastructure. Hence, HOAs are being forced to take over the functions that public authorities used to have ... because local authorities are forcing the responsibilities that local authorities used to have on them. Of course, then the public nature of public space goes into question.
spwa4
HOAs are companies, with the owners as shareholders, who own the shared infrastructure of the owners. Things like hallways, maybe elevators, gardens, this can even include the roads in a community.
The point of HOAs is to force homeowners to CO-decide (in houses: to make things cheaper for local councils) on what happens to the shared infrastructure. What and how to spend of maintenance and what to change.
walthamstow
Not in the land of the free, Great Britain. You can put anything on your house, even a 25ft fibreglass shark diving into your loft.
peri-cl
Wait, is there a story behind—oh, here it is:
https://www.headingtonshark.com/Home/About ("Hello. I'm Magnus Hanson-Heine, the home-owner of the Headington Shark House. The Shark House, formally titled Untitled 1986, consists of a 25ft-long fibreglass and steel shark crashing through the roof of an otherwise ordinary house on a quiet residential street in suburban Oxford...")
ozlikethewizard
There are noise conditions and a few scenarios that will need planning permission (facing a public highway is one) but generally pretty liberal.
The shark scenario is more interesting, and was I'd say was largely allowed to stay because it was an art installation. They couldn't have built an extension of the same proportions without planning permission.
master-lincoln
Of course. But isn't this debate more about the case where you are the only owner?
margor
Don't get me started on how it works in my country.
People who don't have a balcony are screwed and are entirely dependent on homeowners association which arbitrarily can agree or not, or they can stay indecisive about it and not let you do anything.
Well, if you have a balcony? you just put it there and make the necessary holes for it, problem solved.
The effect is exactly the same - you just have AC installed. In one case you have to go through totally unnecessary hoops, and in other case, you just do whatever you want.
What's even the point of it?
Ekaros
It is not entirely that simple. Condensate water is potential problem if wrongly discharged. But adding sufficient drainage is not that expensive per balcony basis. So it is something that should be fixed.
yourusername
Most balconies are already going to have drainage for rain water so solving the drainage problem requires a <$1 piece of plastic tube.
post-it
Condensate is discharged from the inside unit, it should never make it to the balcony.
margor
Where do you think it is getting discharged?
post-it
Into drains in the parking garage in the case of my building. Though thinking more about it now, it's totally reasonable that other buildings might find it easiest to drain to the outside unit.
imp0cat
In a typical mini-split, the water flows to the outside unit and exits the system there, so you either have a pump or a sufficiently sloped pipe from the inside unit to the outside unit.
edit: I guess you could route the drain pipe anywhere if you wanted, so I retract my previous statement.
imp0cat
You can have drain pipes installed, but you can also just collect the water in a bucket and empty it periodically. That requires no extra investment of money, just a tiny bit of your willpower and manpower, depending on the size of the bucket.
There are also systems that spray the water back at the AC unit to cool it down, this is supposed to both improve efficiency and evaporate the water so you don't have to deal with it. I am sure those have some downsides, too.
Ekaros
Both are options. Still both also carry risks or don't solve entire issue. With buckets you don't want to them overflow on floors for example.
And with spraying it on ac you want complete evaporation or you are back to same problem.
As said it is not too hard problem but still something that most likely requires consideration.
margor
I am all for solving these problems and making sure they don't cause problems for others. My problem is with the ability for arbitrary people to say "no" to your case, without even considering the options or facts.
Sure thing, you could go to court if they have any problem, but who is going to fight for AC worth $500 for a few years just to get it installed?
iso1631
If you're worried about that amount of water, what do you do when it rains?
Ekaros
Some idiot figuring out that nice hole in cladding is right place to direct it... Or people under balconies when it is not raining not wanting to have water drop on them... In many cases balconies have less than ideal designs.
imp0cat
Exactly. While I personaly don't have a problem with AC condensate dripping down on the street, I can see how some people might not be used to that.
Best would probably be to use the existing rainwater pipes that lead down to the sewers - all building have those. But good luck getting that past your HOA-equivalent, as that will most probably involve some modifications to the building and we can't have that, no!
hagfjall
Sweden has a 'district cooling' as well as district heating. 2 completely different systems ofcourse. The district cooling is a centralized way of providing cold air/liquid to building and facilities across the city. The centralized producer of the cold stuff, they can also create the chilly stuff by utilizing waste heat from factories, large buildings etc. Pretty neat idea IMO, and something that ideally would be in priority instead of letting each building have their own AC and create a lot of noise.
throwaway473825
The problem with monopolies is that they can hike prices at will. This has certainly happened with district heating in Sweden. You can't do that with AC and solar.
mstaoru
For me the hardest part is sleeping. I can cope with heat during the day, but even with good bedding, mattress, windows open, fans, etc. the body traps heat underneath and if it's hot outside it's just impossible to sleep. I was like a zombie for 2 months this year. And sleep deprivation in general has a ton of adverse health effects.
Unfortunately, I do live in a "heritage" building so split unit is a no-no. Midea pre-filled mini-splits went from €700 to 2000-3000+ and months of lead time. It's crazy.
antonkochubey
>Midea pre-filled mini-splits went from €700 to 2000-3000+ and months of lead time. It's crazy.
They're back to normal prices now. At least in Germany. Make sure to grab one before the next Summer hits :)
hucklebuckle
Do you have a link by any chance
t_mahmood
Right now in my city it's 30c, with 79% humidity, and real feel is 41c, and it's late evening. And, next year it's probably going to be worse. I can see things going really bad for health compromised people pretty soon.
And, we have a flaky electricity, without enough focus or renewables, so, because of war(money)games in the middle east we have a huge gas crisis, and having one/two hours of load-shading every day.
So, tell me, what are we going to do when we can't run the freaking AC, because our power grid failed?
This is encouraging curing the symptoms, not the true problem.
And, the more AC we use, it will increase the ambient temp. And more people uses AC, the more the temp grows. How long we are going to keep doing this? it sounds like another corporate drama to put it on us, the general people instead of solving the issue they create. Heat increased, use AC, it's not a luxury, but we are not going to stop destroying environment.
roter
Most building professionals, urban/city/master planners/engineers are explicitly incorporating resilience into their designs at all levels. This includes both new designs and retrofitting old buildings.
Places of emergency cooling refuge, parks, backup power to ensure energy/water continue, passive features like solar heating, natural ventilation, bioswales, air quality filtering, cool roofs/roads, water features, overhangs/louvers/awnings, insulation, thermal mass, etc, etc.
These are things grass roots can do now to mitigate impacts while governments dither and punt hard decisions into the future.
conradludgate
In our London apartment leasehold, we have a water-sourced air conditioning unit. No external condenser required, it instead dumps the heat into the waste water. It has been incredibly helpful during this heat wave as someone who really struggles in the heat and works from home.
It's not ideal during a drought though to be using water like that, it would be nice if we had a grey water tank system so we didn't have to waste drinking water. It doesn't seem possible to install a grey water tank like that in our apartment though. Given our apartment already has district heating, there's not a super strong reason why it couldn't have district cooling as well, but the regulations are not in our favour here.
We installed it all without planning permission, although it still might require permission from the freeholder depending on the rules regarding Service Media alterations (as it requires new plumbing for our mains water).
Arodex
Or use the calories extracted from the air to heat your water heater.
Technology Connections has a new video exactly about it.
orwin
At least in France, almost all excess deaths were in hospitals and retirement homes. The rest were workers. And we had more heat than Germany. Yes, it is a necessity in some places (schools, nursing homes, hospitals). an AC at home is a luxury. Which, great if you can afford it.
Moldoteck
Hearing that ac at home is a luxury in France when piss poor romania/moldova do install them left and right sounds borderline satirical. Ffs an ac is not that expensive. And running it is not that expensive, especially with french nuclear
TrackerFF
Here in Norway AC is not the standard in hotel rooms. For 80% of the year, that's OK - but it can become pretty uncomfortable if you're booking anytime between mid-June and mid-August.
The standard here are heat pumps, at least for residential housing. It is really only a problem if you live in blocks or apartment buildings that are housing associations, with strict rules regarding how such heat pumps should be installed.
With that said, for my travel to Europe - especially down south, AC in the hotel room is an absolute necessity. A couple of years ago we ended up in a completely booked hotel in Italy (mid July), where the AC in our room was busted - it was beyond miserable. Ended up changing hotels after one night.
Arodex
>Here in Norway AC is not the standard in hotel rooms.
Since when should there be AC in friggin' Norway?
vbarrielle
Since global warming I guess. When there's a heat wave, Norway is probably one of the worst places on hearth to be. You've got near constant sunlight, there's not much time at night to cool your house.
TrackerFF
As I wrote, most of the time it isn't a problem. There's some central heating which gives you a range of temperature, but getting your room cold is much harder than heating it up.
But during summer months, where some cities can hit 30+ degrees (C), that could become uncomfortable. Even worse if you're somewhere humid...20 degrees in high humidity can make you toss and turn all night.
lstodd
Well, summers are summers. Besides typical eu ac is a thermal pump, you can heat up with it, although even in mediterannean winter it's not quite adequate.
ShinyLeftPad
You might be surprised how far you can get with a simple fan. What your body needs is to evaporate heat. You sweat, it evaporates, skin cools down. Airflow helps that process a whole bunch. It's physics. It may not make hot weather feel perfect but it will cover the necessity pretty much anywhere.
Same goes for tree shade and sensible city planning, also architecture (see all those textured dark grey or black condos currently in fashion and shudder). The other day I was biking along a road after dark and residual heat around it is so noticeable, biking 5 meters closer to the trees it felt so much colder.
I've spent some time in SE Asia. Many homes out there don't have an A/C. Apparently the real number is like 85%.
Should air conditioning maybe be less regulated in Europe? Sure. Do I enjoy A/C on occasion? Sure, guilty. Is climate change real? Sure. But A/C is a necessity like water/sewage/electricity? In Europe?? Idk.
Edit: I agree in advance with everyone saying it sucks without AC but just saying, a strategic fan (and opening windows if possible, closing curtains, etc) can be OP. It might sound stupid but for years I literally forgot fans existed because I was where everywhere is AC and often no fan. Just try it...
Edit 2: I think if you're in a hot AND especially humid place (probably not EU) I'm not sure if I'd take AC or dehumidifier
deanc
I think you're under-estimating how hot it gets inside well-insulated European homes. Your mileage may vary across European countries, but in the north where it gets cold in the winter our homes are built to trap heat. Opening windows won't get you very far as the temperature radiates through the windows and traps in the walls. Closing blinds will help, but not by much. It got over 40c in my office this summer. This is not livable conditions with a fan.
margor
When it's around 20C, it's impossible for me to make my rooms colder than say 23C, because there is no way I can make so much of air exchange.
Even if I somehow manage to pull the air in, the moment I close it - the walls that have all that heat will start giving it back again, bringing the temperature back to where it was.
It's so funny, that when the winter starts, it's long into the winter before I have to turn on heating in my apartment.
rdedev
The problem is when humidity rises it makes it harder forbthe body to expel hear via evaporation. This is what is happening in places like UK this time around. An AC helps get rid of the humidity as it cools the air. I don't know about necessity now but 20 years down the line, who knows
piskov
Cooling the air by definition raises the humidity :-)
Dehumidifier mode in AC works by cooling the air below the dew point, removing the condensation, then warming the air up (either by itself or literally heating it up)
t_mahmood
But for dehumidifier in AC, the heat is dispensed through the outdoor unit, so end result actually cools the house. I use our AC in dehumidifier mode, also, as I understand it has less power consumption (please correct me if I am wrong). In my experience, it cools down the room pretty well
piskov
Suppose you have 27C with with 65% humidity.
Due point for that air is 19.8C. Meaning it reaches 100% relative humidity at this point. If cooled even more, water condensates from air into droplets.
—
What this means: if you cool that air to 22 degrees (instead of 19.8) it will reach 87% humidity without loosing any water to the outside.
—
That’s why we need humidifiers in winter as the opposite thing happens: if we heat cold air that has 80% relative humidity to room temperature it will drop its humidity to 20%
raincom
I won't say "less power consumption". Definitely, not more consumption if efficient controls and motors are used (ECM motors for air handlers, VFD compressors).
The real problem is the repair costs of these advanced units in the developed countries. Carrier wanted $8k for a new control board for a residential unit in the US. Same thing for ECM/VFD.
piskov
There is nothing “advanced” about this. It is just cooling the air below the dew point.
Same water tray and a hose for water condensate.
raincom
"advanced" is about motors (blower motor and compressor) and their controls. The context is repairs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzEIPEky1s
rdtsc
It really depends on the type of ac unit and conditions. If for example it has to cool it first to condense the moisture out and then also reheat it back to avoid blowing back air that’s too cold, it may consume more power even.
rdtsc
> Cooling the air by definition raises the humidity :-)
That’s a bit too nitpick-y. It raises the relative humidity by the condenser coil unit so it condenses and drips out, but air flowing back into the rooms will have less humidity.
ozim
Now my room is 26.5C and 40% relative humidity, it is really pleasant. There are days where it is 24C and relative humidity is showing 55%, that's when I turn on AC.
t_mahmood
I am from an SE-Asian country, AC usage has increased a lot, and, also we are hell bent on devastating every green that is available, as much as possible.
Dehumidifier works pretty well, provided it's built in to the AC unit, portable one's will increase the room temp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QfX0SYCE8
Portable one's heat dispenser is inside your room, AC unit's outside. But the issue being, as it disperses the heat outside, it's probably still increasing the ambient heat?
piskov
People in Asia are in those conditions from the birth.
Like they literally put on the sweatshot/hoodie in the early mornings with effing 27 degrees Celsius
That’s not a normal temperature for Europeans.
Also I could not imagine doing some serious thought work in temps like this.
There are a lot of studies of how mental performance is correlated with temperatures with men needing couple degrees even lower than women (eg 22 vs 24)
—
Airflow helps a lot, of course. But it must be in swinging motions / constantly changing direction — nervous system doesn’t like same constant stimulus to the point of neuralgia if prolonged.
Moldoteck
During heatwaves the fan is no longer sufficient. It can improve ac cold air spreading though. A fan alone will not help you when your walls are warm and when even at night outside temp is above 20dg and humidity is high
ggsp
Fans stop cooling you once air temps approach body temperature. The EU sees tens of thousands of excess deaths each summer, mostly among the elderly.
tlamponi
> But A/C it a necessity like water/sewage/electricity? In Europe, nah.
s/Europe/all parts of Europe/
I.e., Europe has a lot of different climate (sub)zones, and it heavily depends on where you actually live.
I'm fine with a fan in the Alps, where I sleep at 1,000 metres above sea level, and nights with the minimum temperature above 20°C are still very rare. I even don't bother turning the fan on most of the time, or just for an hour or so to clear the trapped heat in the bedroom at like 22:00 o'clock once outside cooled down enough.
OTOH I'm NOT fine in my Vienna flat with just a fan. There, this summer we got quite a few nights where the minimum temperature did not go below 25°C, even some with a minimum of 28°C and a maximum of 41°C. The flat is an old building and has only windows on one side facing a small curtilage without any trees or grass, so it traps heat, and I cannot even cool it well at night, even if the outside temperature goes a few degrees below the inside one, as the yard also traps heat.
Without an AC I could not sleep at all-even with a fan, it's very hard to sleep well above 25°, and frankly even above 23° for me. And I had to buy a much less efficient portable one (before the Midea Portasplit was a thing) because of braindead local regulations.
Ironically, in the winter the local gov suddenly starts calling those "bad ACs" again by their alternative "heat pumps" name, and they become the best thing ever for heating. I really cannot figure out how one can do that mental gymnastics without getting a headache.
Anyway, don't assume that your local conditions hold for all of Europe.
sleepyguy
You should come to Texas and tell me how well you get along with just a fan. We have had like over 40 days of 40-45 C in a row. The wind feels like a blast furnace and at night it can still be 38 C outside. Even the birds have fled to cooler locals. It is so intense that you can not walk barefoot outside around your home. If your car broke down on the side of a road, you would be dead in less than an hour, even in the shade. I like to tell people that Texas is the next stop after Hell and too be honest it is like living in the Arctic compared to Arizona where the temps are even worse.
I was in Vienna this summer and the inside of the apartment was over 40 for the entire week. Thank god, we were able to buy a portable AC unit from Mediamrkt before they ran out.
tonyhart7
people in middle east literally use keffiyeh which is just a scarf in a head lmao
ThePhysicist
I mean it's mostly about energy efficiency, a well insulated house is as easy to cool in summer as it is to heat in winter. Most heat pumps can also cool and new construction in most European countries like Germany is equipped with floor heating and central ventilation which in summer allows you to run around 18 degree Celsius hot water through the system to cool it, that yields around 20-40 Watt of cooling power per square meter, and that's often sufficient to keep things chilly. Mind you not American style 18 degree Celsius kind of chilly, but 20-25 degrees easily, which I think is quite nice. The bonus of this system is that it's mostly "radiative" cooling as the cold surface acts as an absorber of infrared radiation, I find it much more pleasant than having cold air blown into your face.
We equipped our founding era building with wall heating and will test out the heatpump based cooling next summer, if it's not enough I would consider installing a small AC unit, that's super easy as well.
Don't know what the article wants to say, there's no ban on AC anywhere in Europe and small units are quite affordable, you can get a single split unit from Mitsubishi for 500 € from Italy. The only nuisance is that installation is heavily regulated in Germany so they rip you off with insane cost. That's definitely a thing that needs to change in my opinion.
morsch
Spot on. You're doing heatpump based cooling without floor heating? I didn't realise that was an option.
ThePhysicist
Wall heating, it's like floor heating, just on the wall.
thisisauserid
For some reason, room-level air conditioning is basic public health, but weather engineering is a sci-fi villain origin story.
jeltz
The reason is that one allows you to destroy harvests and ecosystems while the other does not.
sfn42
Because weather engineering is experimentation with potentially huge unintended consequences both for the people in the relevant region as well as people in neighbouring regions and potentially even further.
How would you feel if your neighbour started doing something that was good for them but disastrous for you? Or something with good intentions that turned out to just be a huge mistake causing billions in damages, maybe even lives lost?
Weather engineering is extremely risky, we can barely predict the weather a few hours in advance. We have no idea what kind of havoc we might cause trying to do it on a large scale.
Arodex
The author works for CATO and writes in WaPo.
They think global warming is a minor threat that requires minimal to no changes in regulations, but heat waves (that, according to her, have always been the same every year) are a massive threat to the public and requires immediate changes in regulation.
alsanan
The real huge problem has been abandoning all ancient techniques used to passively cool buildings (provenzal well, wind towers, crossed ventilation, pressure differential,...) when AC was invented. The industry loves maintenance. The price will be paid now: low and expensive energy and unnecessary deaths.
collinmcnulty
A total ban is nonsensical. If you’re concerned about noise regulate the sound level. If you’re concerned about energy use, tax it and put the money raised into a solar subsidy. But the idea you can have a heat pump and can’t have an AC is absurd because a heat pump literally is an AC flipped around.
michelsedgh
All these countries are pushing EV's so I don't understand how it could be about energy use lol?
kalleboo
EVs use less energy than ICE cars, they are more efficient.
michelsedgh
Most EV chargers are burning gas to charge the ev cars. Thats just wasting energy. Almost any fast charger ive used has a gas generator next to it.
yourusername
And no fast charger i've ever used had a gas generator next to it. Even if it were true (and in the EU it is definitely not) DC fast charging is only small percentage of EV charging.
iso1631
But they put more demand on the electrical grid.
Domestic connections in the UK are built with an average peak consumption of about 1.5 to 2kW, you can draw ten times that, but its unlikely every house will do that at the same time, so it's just like a contention ratio on a network.
Now imagine everyone charges their car, even if it's only for an hour, but when they get home at 7pm, same time as putting on the kettle and the oven, that's way higher than the substation can provide.
One study put a fully electric car/heatpump/cooking about 4 times the peak demand of an ice/gas heating house, even if total usage is only twice as much, and total energy use is far less than with ICE/gas. Throw in solar and it reduces the total power drawn from the grid, but not the peak amount. Drawing 20kW for one hour is far more expensive to service than drawing 1kW for 24 hours, but uses less energy.
ImJamal
Well filling up your ICE car doesn't impact the energy grid (the electric use of the pumps is minimal). Charging your EV does.
slfnflctd
I've been thinking for a while about whether it would be feasible to produce an affordable 'personal cooling chamber' for lower income people in places getting scorched in the summer that don't have A/C.
Basically an automotive air conditioning unit hooked up to a battery and solar panel, with a tanning bed type form factor (up to maybe capsule hotel size), painted or coated to reflect light & heat. Highly portable.
I'm not sure if it's remotely practical, but it would be interesting to run the numbers, and I'm certain there is at least someone out there who would buy it even if the cost turned out to be higher than I envision.
lbriner
You can already get small portable air conditioners but until recently, most people with low incomes wouldn't spend £300 on something they might only need for 4 weeks per year and needs storing the rest of the time. That might change of course as time goes by.
What some people in the UK do is go to local air conditioned public buildings like libraries (which they are welcome to do) and occasionally a large air conditioned store or shopping centre.
numpad0
The compressor unit is just too big and heavy for that. COP is too low for Peltier cooling elements(aka Thermo-Electric Coolers). First generation of those will be/are based on regular ice of H2O or a frozen coolant pack with some engineered high temperature ice; H2O is going to be more convenient since they can be drank and replaced.
dguest
Stick your feet in a bucket of water. My colleague does it: it's magical.
Moldoteck
Acs are not that expensive. The problem is getting approval
wim
And AC can heat too! For example, in some EU countries gas boilers are still a huge thing, even though increasingly archaic. At the same time many of its users denounce AC because of reasons, apparently missing the fact that an AC is an (air-to-air) heat pump. Incredible how Big Boiler somehow convinced people to keep heating their houses by burning gas in these contraptions while ACs could do the job with much higher energy efficiency while also cooling the house in summer (and yes many places with these gas boilers have _hot_ summers these days)!
margor
It's not that simple. If you have a gas boiler, you're most likely exchanging heat using radiators which are _designed_ for certain amount of heat exchange. With high water temperature, you can get away with smaller radiator and deliver the same amount of heat.
The story gets worse when you put heat pump to the same system - now you have to run it to its limits to have just enough heat in the water to make the radiators release enough heat to barely heat up the room.
Of course, it's only that simple to replace one heat source with another, why wouldn't anyone do it already?
throwaway473825
>Of course, it's only that simple to replace one heat source with another, why wouldn't anyone do it already?
In most European countries, electricity is taxed much higher than gas. Those taxes eat a large chuck of the efficiency gains from a heat pump, and then it's not worth the effort.
utopiah
Very strange take, you can buy an airco unit in the EU today get it delivered tomorrow morning and, assuming it's the portable kind that just need to be plugged and exhaust outside, have it running right away. For more permanent ones you might need a professional to install it if you don't know yourself. There is absolutely 0 barrier if you need or even just want one.
Proof in Belgium : https://www.coolblue.be/en/air-conditioners/filter which ironically enough aren't even available anymore because they are out of stock, so clearly purchased showing people had no problem getting them. Alternative example 12000BTU A+++ energy rating delivery next week https://www.bol.com/be/fr/p/climatiseur-mobile-puissant-clim... To be clear I'm not advocating to buy these, or not, only that they are freely and conveniently available.
yoz-y
I live in France. That kind of aircon is garbage both in how much it can cool a room and how efficient it is due to under pressure.
You can get a portable split-system if you have a balcony.
But installing a real full-size AC with a large external unit is prohibited in most cases. If you’re renting you’re of course out of luck. An apartment, even one you own-forget it.
utopiah
Well that is a different setup that what I mention but thanks for indeed highlighting how they are not the same.
FWIW houses in Tuscany with very strict rules, e.g. you don't even get to pick the color of your own house, manage to get the entire place setup with full-size AC it's feasible. What's not feasible is trying to ignore laws on what a building must look like but that has nothing to do with air conditioning. For example if Belgium if you has is classified as notable (most old houses are) then you need a permit even for the window frame.
bambax
This is all, sadly, very true. Anti-AC sentiment is prevalent throughout Europe, and like all superstions, it's based on false assumptions, and extremely resistant to actual evidence.
throwaway473825
If that's the case, then why do all European cars have AC? There's an anti-electricity sentiment, but that's a very different thing. It's why most of those anti-AC places use gas heating.
andunie
What temperatures are we talking about here? Aren't people living in much higher temperatures in tropical zones just fine?
defrost
Just fine in completely different types of buildings.
There's a lot of buildings to tear down and convert if you want to legitimately make comparisons.
lukasbm
Yeah, with AC
dizhn
I've been to a little town in Pakistan where they sell meat out in the open and you can get a hair cut on the street. Houses are run down as you would expect but you better believe they all seemed to have AC units.
FartyMcFarter
I don't necessarily disagree, but I am wondering what luxury will next become a necessity if we keep increasing our energy usage in order to get both more luxuries and necessities?
On the bright side, I suppose one mitigating factor is that renewable energy makes it less harmful to use energy to power A/C usage.
oleganza
Are we going to build a dyson sphere some day or are we not? That's some hell of a "increasing our energy usage".
rotringlvr
[dead]
markus_zhang
We have similar rules for condos in Canada, so we used a portable one back when we owned a condo. It’s also kinda expensive to install one, too.
probably_wrong
I'm not convinced by the author's point that ACs do not impose a burden on the electrical grid. They write that ACs have gotten more efficient, which may be true, but that's the same Windows developers have been saying over years and yet boot times and hardware requirements have gone way up. One million efficient units still require more energy than no units. And while I definitely believe that European hospitals and retirement homes sadly need ACs now (thanks global warming), I'm not sure everyone and their dog needs one.
I also have reservations about why an American libertarian think tank writes about what Europeans should do, but that's probably on me.
lompad
The reason why they aren't much of a problem for the grid is solar. Right now we already have the issue, that in some areas we're throwing away the majority of the produced electricity. Very common in e.g. southern germany.
Conveniently, cooling is especially needed when the energy production from solar is at its maximum.
I've been part of projects building 20-40 MW solar installations in southern germany and on average we throw away >50% of what we generate.
There is SO MUCH SOLAR now, we don't know what to do with all the energy.
mrob
>while I definitely believe that European hospitals and retirement homes sadly need ACs now (thanks global warming), I'm not sure everyone and their dog needs one.
If a 10-day heat wave cuts work productivity by 10% (which is optimistic IMO, it's probably worse in countries where people aren't used to it), that's equivalent to a 1-day general strike. If the workers actually managed to pull off a general strike in modern times, you can be sure the state wouldn't be happy with business as usual.
Moldoteck
Most of the grid is built for winter. Summer has huge overcapacity. That's also why France exported every single day and hour this summer despite all the stories of shut down nuclear plants
Europe had tens of thousands of excess deaths from heatwaves this year. It's not about american think tank but basic will to avoid suffering
danek_szy
> I also have reservations about why an American libertarian think tank writes about what Europeans should do, but that's probably on me.
My thoughts exactly, except in my mind it's pretty clear that it's about influencing the climate change discourse... The less people are bothered by the rising temperatures, the more they will acquiesce to environmentally unfriendly policy.
Moldoteck
I'm still brothered by climate change every time i get out of my apartment. I still don't want to feel miserable during heatwave. This argument is utter nonsense considering most of Europe has summer clean electric overcapacity. It's even more nonsensical in case of hvacs because it leads to pollution reduction by replacing gas heating
twoodfin
European citizens should have obstacles put into their path to access one of the great life-enhancing technologies of the last century … so they will vote for the “right” policies as implemented by the politicians setting up those obstacles?
Good luck with that.
t0mislav
Luckily, we in Croatia have ACs, a lot.
dguest
> the French government [1] have said that cooling a room .. more than 15 degrees ... can trigger “thermal shock.” ... This ailment is mysteriously absent from the United States...
Leaving aside that this kind of insinuation makes the article look like cheap rage-bate, cold shock is a cardiovascular risk to the same populations that are most vulnerable to heat waves, and the French government article was recommendations to implement AC in a reasonable way to keep them safe. The underlying weirdness here is that neither of them is a problem for most of the population: the vast majority of heat-wave deaths aren't otherwise healthy people. If you're going to write an article advocating AC, predicated on the deaths heat causes, you should at least mention that you're worried about a very specific population.
For sure heat is uncomfortable for everyone. But so is cold shock: don't drop the temperature by 15°C so that I have to wear a coat to work in the middle of summer. That's just silly.
[1]: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/LEGITEXT000006051990/...
beardyw
"This article was originally published in The Washington Post"
Pretty much all you need to know in 2026.
blitzar
I presume the original had affiliate links to air conditioners on Amazon
beardyw
I was thinking more of climate change (in) denial.
dimitar
The truth is that until recently AC was not needed in the mild climates of much of the continent and it is already present everywhere in the South and East. Regulation and affordability is part of the story, but its far from the primary factor for most people.
Its funny how its mostly US-based libertarian types concerned about AC in Europe. There are plenty of things Europe over-regulates, but this is not it.
eloisant
It wasn't needed but now it is, so things need to change because people are already dying.
But hey, at least we preserved the nice 19th century Parisian landscape.
okaleniuk
Has anyone ever argued that AC is luxury? This century? Really? I believe, the division goes between harm/comfort and not luxury/necessity.
I don't have AC at home. Some think I don't install it because I somehow don't get hot in summer or cold at winter. It's the other way around. We, people, have one of the best thermoregulation systems among animals, our whole skin is essentially a huge cooling system. The only way to render it incapable is... stop using it for a prolonged amount of time. It's use it or lose it all over again.
If you don't believe me, read what ultra-marathon runners have to say. If a trained athlete can survive Badwater, almost everyone can train themselves to survive a European heatwave.
Sure, some people can't. Some need AC because of cardiovascular conditions. It's fine, let them have it. But some people can't walk because of musculoskeletal conditions, but no one would argue that a wheelchair is a necessity.
lesostep
The other side is: my grandmother could survive heatwave just because her house wasn't heating up that much. It's old, it's stone, stone is just good at keeping temperature even. And the air coming through the windows passes through trees that are good at lowering temperature.
Even if it got a bit hot – like it does in mine, that has less volumetric heat capacity — simple floor scrub lowers temperature. Evaporating water is just a very good at that, and floor is a big area.
If we take a house made of paper and place it in a place with no trees and a lot of asphalt, I believe that AC could become a necessity. No amount of evaporating water could help you to fight heat rising from the road.
But I much prefer better houses and city planning
mmsc
Thats what I tell to all the wildlife when they collapse, too.
EcommerceFlow
This is all a trickle down effect of energy policies fyi.
blondie9x
Imagine a world where a larger share of companies focus on actual, verifiable improvement of outcomes for people. Not a world dominated by selling more consumption. A world where we go to work to make things better. Outcomes driven by improvements in human health, longevity, and happiness, not by bottom lines and profit margins. To get to that world we will have to be more open about being imposters.
38384848b
idk fam I live in mauritania and we just tough it out
Steve16384
I'm not sure what the point of this article is, apart from fearmongering about a new boogie man.
danek_szy
> HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute with major support from the John Templeton Foundation and the Searle Freedom Trust [1]
> The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. [2]
It's nothing more than US libertarian think tank trying to influence EU policy... Perhaps in an effort to push more anti climate change agenda/discourse in US (but that might be just my projection).
Thank you, case closed.
[1] https://humanprogress.org/about/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute
Moldoteck
Case closed that europe got tens of thousands excess deaths from heatwaves?
vlyan
I think even when it's 45C and your boomers cook alive in their concrete ovens, I will still see these sneering opinions from the enlightened master race, civilized to the point of welcoming their own extinction to preserve the klimat for someone else's children.
tempfile
Lazy climate change denialism, nobody is convinced.
vlyan
acknowledging that climate has changed is climate change denialism?
tempfile
What did you mean by "preserve the klimat for someone else's children" then?
vlyan
aboriginal Europeans' TFR is about 1.2 and falling. even if did remain that high (it won't!), 750M will become <100M in 100 years and <10M in 200 years. Europeans have already adopted the most effective strategy imaginable to fight klimat change -- extinction.
so I don't think it's fair to scold Hans from Hamburg over his carbon footprint. Abdul from Mogadishu may emit less CO2 over his own lifetime, but each of his 5 children will have 5 children, and no one will scold him for it.
tempfile
So Hans can do whatever he likes because you want to blame Abdul for the cumulative sum of all his descendants?
vlyan
yes. does that not make sense to you? unless Hans is a young global leader who flies his private jet to Davos every year to urge proles to eat ze bugs, his carbon footprint will be less than that of someone with children.
(I would use something other than "Abdul from Mogadishu" as the counterpart, but the only remotely European people not going extinct are some subgroups of Israeli Jews.)
esseph
> but the only remotely European people not going extinct are some subgroups of Israeli Jews
What?
danek_szy
[citation needed] :)
edit: (well the author decided to remove part of his comment mentioning "face-condoms", too bad)
vlyan
okay, sure. I only removed it because I know that questioning the mass hysteria of that brief era gets you flagged.
>the RKI estimated roughly 2,600–4,900 heat-related deaths annually in 2022–2025
>Germany reported about 2,800 COVID-19-associated deaths in the 2024/25 season, which covers most of the 2025 winter and spring.
so yes, taking Germany as the example, the world-ending plague now kills fewer boomers per year than summer does, despite it being over 4 years since anyone wore face condoms or gave a shit about bi-weekly boosters.
rdtsc
> During a heat wave in 2022, one Frenchwoman said AC “makes you sick, and it gives you a headache.” Left-wing French politician Jean-Luc Mélenchon has claimed air conditioning “destroys your sinuses.”
AC giving people headaches and destroying their sinuses sounds a bit bonkers. Ok let people install it then, slap a “government believes this may give you headaches and destroy your sinuses” sticker on it and let people decide.
I guess before the heat wave this could have a been a litmus test for stupidity but now it should be a litmus test for maliciousness.
tempfile
> HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute
You are reading propaganda.
dguest
Kind of interesting to think about why an American libertarian think tank would be writing articles about Europe. Is it just to give Americans talking points against whatever europhile they might encounter, or does Cato actually care about European policy now?
mopsi
The AC propaganda coming from the US this year is really strange and out of proportion. About ten times as many people die from the cold in Europe as die from the heat.
Moldoteck
This is not propaganda what a nonsense. The fact that more ppl die from cold is not an argument against using ACs. It's an argument to have hvacs to get proper electrified cooling and heating
mopsi
But it is such a strange, superficial flood of propaganda; preaching is perhaps a better word. The main concern remains heat retention and that's what buildings will remain optimized for.
My house has 65 cm / 2 ft stone walls, which makes the normal temperature changes throughout the year very gradual because of the enormous thermal mass of the walls. But once the walls heat up during a prolonged heatwave (which are becoming more frequent because of climate change), AC becomes remarkably ineffective at cooling because the walls will continue radiating heat into the rooms. The walls used to cool down during the night and provide a very nice thermal buffer during the day, but with elevated temperatures even at night, that doesn't work anymore.
"Just install AC, brooo" seems like something coming from the crowd that doesn't want to address the root problem.
surgical_fire
> Who We Are
> HumanProgress.org is a project of the Cato Institute
Oh ffs.
MichaelRigney
[flagged]
Jamesbeam
[flagged]
Arodex
First words from the article:
>Yet as heat waves kill tens of thousands of Europeans each year
...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett?
Last words from the article:
>But forgoing air conditioning is a refusal to move on from a lethally hot past.
Gee, I wonder if this global warming thing wasn't a mistake to let happen...
If that author is right, then we can and should punish the people responsible for global warming? Because that includes a lot of her colleagues at Cato and WaPo. The same who were against the same carbon taxes that would be useful to reduce and mitigate the global warming that kills...
2III7
> If that author is right, then we can and should punish the people responsible for global warming?
So every adult human and corporation?
Arodex
We can start with people who got paid to make sure no action was taken against global warming - such as everyone working at CATO, like the author of this article...
michelsedgh
How are u gonna punish china? do u have any logic? chatgpt 3.5 makes more sense than these types of comments...
Arodex
I didn't know it was China who lied and diverted global efforts to reduce greenhouse gases...
pessimizer
> ...Each year? Was it the case every year twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? What has changed, miss Follett?
Are you considering answering this question? Was it the case fifty years ago? Did anything change?
Arodex
It is called a rhetorical question. You already know the answer.
And if you don't already know it, just wonder why AC isn't widespread in Europe, why nuclear plants built decades ago have to stop due to the lack of water and why every single article talks about an "exceptional" heat wave. Do you really need me to hold you hand there?
huntertwo
Oh no you’re gonna trigger the Germans.
flyingjoe
For sure. I'm from Germany (but with an AC) as well and am always amazed when people tell me that AC makes you sick. Even young people sometimes replicate this "Oh you gotta be careful not to get sick" and would rather be in 30+°C indoors. How come Germans get sick while the rest of the world seems to be doing fine and is even productive during summer (it feels like Germany grinds to a halt during heatwaves).
danek_szy
AC dries the air out and your respiratory system basically depends on moisture to catch air particles and pathogens in your respiratory tract.
Nothing unique about Germans in this case, sorry. ;)
ranger_danger
You could run a humidifier as well to offset that if you're really affected by it, but most people seem to be fine.
rvz
Exactly. It is like never turning the heater on once the temperature drops to -10°C (then catching a cold and getting sick).
So once it is too hot, just turn the AC on and you won't get sick or risk a heat stroke either.
We'll come back to this in several months for a winter freeze to see if Europe has basic heating to keep themselves warm (or will they not turn the heaters on for some reason) and in a year, to see if the rest of Europe have learned their lesson to just have basic AC installed for the next heatwave.
ranger_danger
In Japan people often claim to be "allergic" to AC too for some reason, and there have been many stories I've heard from foreigners whose Japanese wives refuse to let them run the AC during the night either.
Personally I think their "allergy" is just because most AC units in Japan are disgustingly moldy and never cleaned regularly.
We have those stupid regulations in Finland about how the outside of our apartments buildings should look - meaning you cannot put the condenser visibly on the outside of the building. I've heard stories of residents being scalded for putting flowers on their balcony railings that face outwards as it ruins the "look". Given almost all apartment buildings are built consistently between every floor they could ensure consistent placement of condensers across all floors and it wouldn't even look that bad.
What makes the situation much worse here is we have insanely good insulation on the buildings. They trap heat for the cold winters, but the walls just maintain all the heat during the summers. A new approach is needed to make it livable here.
In my own apartment I am not able to create a cross-breeze through strategic window opening to try and bring in cooler air from outside, so I've resorted to opening a window on one side of the apartment and using a Vornado fan to push air out the window on another side of the apartment - creating a pressurized system.